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#921 - 04/04/01 11:42 AM GEC Upgrade  
Redsy  Offline
Member
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 2,056
Bucks County PA
A newly renovated home will have a service upgrade from 100 to 200 amp.
The home is built on a slab and the water main entrance is under the kitchen sink 2 rooms away.In addition to the installation of a ground rod, the #6 Al GEC to the water main will need to be upgraded to #4 Cu. In order to not disturb the newly finished interior of the 2 middle rooms, I am considering attaching the new GEC to the water main underground,immediately outside the home.(There is more than 10' of pipe). Any thoughts?

[This message has been edited by Redsy (edited 04-04-2001).]

[This message has been edited by Redsy (edited 04-04-2001).]


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#922 - 04/04/01 05:02 PM Re: GEC Upgrade  
sparky  Offline
Member
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 5,303
ask if , instead of jumping the meter ( i assume it's inside) if you can bond the closest h20 pipe

[Linked Image]


#923 - 04/04/01 05:09 PM Re: GEC Upgrade  
wayne  Offline
Member
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 54
NC
If I understand you correctly sounds like you have it all covered, with the exception that you can use a #6 COPPER for your GEC Other than that I beleive you have it covered.
wayne
Quote
Originally posted by Redsy:
A newly renovated home will have a service upgrade from 100 to 200 amp.
The home is built on a slab and the water main entrance is under the kitchen sink 2 rooms away.In addition to the installation of a ground rod, the #6 Al GEC to the water main will need to be upgraded to #4 Cu. In order to not disturb the newly finished interior of the 2 middle rooms, I am considering attaching the new GEC to the water main underground,immediately outside the home.(There is more than 10' of pipe). Any thoughts?

[This message has been edited by Redsy (edited 04-04-2001).]

[This message has been edited by Redsy (edited 04-04-2001).]


#924 - 04/04/01 05:45 PM Re: GEC Upgrade  
Tom  Offline
Member
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 1,044
Shinnston, WV USA
There are water pipe ground clamps available for direct burial. Most of them aren't, so you may have to look around for one.

Make sure that you have 2 ground rods at least 6 feet apart.

Other than that, sounds good to me.

Tom


Few things are harder to put up with than the annoyance of a good example.

#925 - 04/05/01 09:09 AM Re: GEC Upgrade  
sparky66wv  Offline
Member
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 2,236
West Virginia
Tom,

While we're more or less on the subject, with the requirement from allegheny power for two ground rods, (even when the resistance is low enough to need only one according to the NEC, less than 25 Ohms)
Can one use a ground ring or ground plate substitute for each ground rod? I'm in very rocky soil here in the limestone belt of Greenbrier County. Or has AP gone above and beyond code with their requirements again?

[This message has been edited by sparky66wv (edited 04-05-2001).]


-Virgil
Residential/Commercial Inspector
5 Star Inspections
Member IAEI

#926 - 04/05/01 04:38 PM Re: GEC Upgrade  
Tom  Offline
Member
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 1,044
Shinnston, WV USA
'66,

I wouldn't have a problem with accepting 2 made electrodes of any type when there are adverse soil conditions. Best to check with your local inspector. Hope you've found one better than the last guy you mentioned.

The ground ring would only be one electrode. If you're going to dig a tremch, just dig one 30" deep and long enough to bury two rods horizontally with 6' spacing.

Two plates separated by 6 feet would meet 250-56.

As far as AP requiring the 2 electrodes, you might as well install 2 anyway. I personally don't know anyone with the proper test equipment, other than one mine electrical inspector in Fairmont. Generally speaking, in most cases you could drive the second electrode faster than you could do the test, which will likely exceed 25 ohms almost anywhere in WV.

I'd be glad to do an inspection for you, but I don't think you could handle the windshield time & mileage charge.

AP has been sued enough times that they keep getting more restrictive, someday their specs will reach the point that no one will be able to afford service.

Tom


Few things are harder to put up with than the annoyance of a good example.

#927 - 04/05/01 08:58 PM Re: GEC Upgrade  
sparky66wv  Offline
Member
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 2,236
West Virginia
I believe I read a procedure in the American Electrician's Handbook that explains how to check the resistance by placing a 5 amp fuse between the grounding electrode and a 120V source. The fuse blows, you're done, the fuse doesn't blow, drive another rod. I haven't had the courage to test this procedure however...


-Virgil
Residential/Commercial Inspector
5 Star Inspections
Member IAEI

#928 - 04/05/01 09:26 PM Re: GEC Upgrade  
Bill Addiss  Offline
Member
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 3,875
NY, USA
'66

I thought that test sounds rather tame compared to some stuff you've done in the shop out back! [Linked Image]

Bill


#929 - 04/06/01 08:09 PM Re: GEC Upgrade  
Tom  Offline
Member
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 1,044
Shinnston, WV USA
'66,

I can't reccomend energizing any grounding conductor intentionally. If you do you've got bigger stones than me. [Linked Image]

Besides, this is not the reccomended test of a grounding electrode.

Most of the testers I've seen cost in the $800 + range. I can buy & drive a lot of ground rods for that money & as I've said, in WV, there is no 25 ohms or less, except maybe in a riverbed.

Tom

[This message has been edited by Tom (edited 04-06-2001).]


Few things are harder to put up with than the annoyance of a good example.

#930 - 04/07/01 08:58 AM Re: GEC Upgrade  
sparky66wv  Offline
Member
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 2,236
West Virginia
Hey, that's how guys around here get their fishing bait!

[This message has been edited by sparky66wv (edited 04-07-2001).]


-Virgil
Residential/Commercial Inspector
5 Star Inspections
Member IAEI

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