The Electrical Contractor Network

ECN Electrical Forum
Discussion Forums for Electricians, Inspectors and Related Professionals

Books, Tools and Test Equipment for Electrical and Construction Trades

Register Now!

Register Now!

We want your input!


2017 NEC and Related
2017 NEC
Now Available!

Recent Posts
Parking lot pole light swap....
by ghost307
Today at 06:25 AM
International Wire Colour Codes
by Tjia1981
Yesterday at 12:08 PM
Son of Sparky
by HotLine1
10/20/16 07:43 PM
Speaking of Plugmold ...
by gfretwell
10/17/16 02:37 PM
Broken battery charger? Check for cobwebs!
by gfretwell
10/17/16 02:30 PM
New in the Gallery:
12.5A through 0.75mm˛ flex (just out of curiosity)
Shout Box

Top Posters (30 Days)
gfretwell 13
HotLine1 7
ghost307 7
renosteinke 6
Potseal 4
Who's Online
0 registered (), 277 Guests and 7 Spiders online.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Topic Options
Rate This Topic
#91944 - 02/13/05 09:23 AM Afci?
ga.sparky56 Offline

Registered: 11/24/02
Posts: 582
Loc: young harris georgia usa
Have a garage Apt in large house. The area is all open,except for the bathroom. There's also a kitchen,but it's all in the same area as the living/sleeping quarters.

I'm thinking the kitchen should be treated as a separate area,and wired like a normal kitchen. Living/sleeping area should be afci.

I'd ask the ahj.,but there isn't one.

Am, I seeing this right?


2014 / 2011 NEC & Related Books and Study Guides
#91945 - 02/13/05 09:57 AM Re: Afci?
gfretwell Offline


Registered: 07/20/04
Posts: 9025
Loc: Estero,Fl,usa
I'm sure it sounds like overkill but I tend to agree. The kitchen area should have 2 20s, GFCI, serving the countertop and the bath should have a GFCI 20. Everthing but the bath should be fed from AFCI breakers since it is all part of the sleeping area.
I suppose it could be argued that the small appliance circuits don't need AFCI but I am not sure how you make that argument if it is all one room.
Greg Fretwell

#91946 - 02/13/05 10:24 AM Re: Afci?
CRM Offline

Registered: 02/29/04
Posts: 73
Loc: Alberta Canada
It depends on rules in your area. In my area where the sleeping facilities form part of a single room combined with other living areas, the kitchen receptacles (counter, fridge, microwave,etc) are not considered part of the "sleeping facility" receptacles requiring arc-fault protection.

#91947 - 02/13/05 03:24 PM Re: Afci?
ga.sparky56 Offline

Registered: 11/24/02
Posts: 582
Loc: young harris georgia usa
I could see that too CRM. As for the rules in this particular case...there are none. No Permits,no inspections,and no AHJ in this particular area.

And yes it is all one room. Only partitions are around the bath.


[This message has been edited by ga.sparky56 (edited 02-13-2005).]

#91948 - 02/13/05 06:26 PM Re: Afci?
PCBelarge Offline

Registered: 06/08/03
Posts: 657
Loc: Dobbs Ferry, NY, USA
The rules for AFCI are fairly new and will be massaged in the future, as more information is gathered.
As for now it is almost "experimental" in nature. What I mean by that is the requirements are for bedrooms as some "information", whether correct or not, has been presented that fires tend to start in bedrooms more than not. And they will be looking at studies to help further decisions in the future.

The studio/one room scenario might not have been considered. I do not see the harm of having it all protected by AFCIs, but that would require GFCI protection at the countertop receptacles located at the receptacles, as AFCI do not provide the proper type GFCI protection as per NEC.

For now I would permit the installation with or without AFCI protection for the kitchen area.

Remember this is strictly my opinion!!!
Pierre Belarge

#91949 - 02/13/05 08:04 PM Re: Afci?
pdh Offline

Registered: 01/20/05
Posts: 354
Cutler-Hammer does make 1-pole and 2-pole (common trip), 15-amp and 20-amp, AFCI/GFCI combination breakers for both CH and BR series panels. So in theory you could put total protection everywhere, including shared-neutral circuits. Their classified breakers for QO and HOM series do not include all these options.

This is one of the reasons I may end up using C-H in the home I'll be building in a few years (although, things can change by then).

#91950 - 02/14/05 07:26 PM Re: Afci?
ga.sparky56 Offline

Registered: 11/24/02
Posts: 582
Loc: young harris georgia usa
Thanks for the input fellas.

To do the CYA deal,I think I'll afci everything in that apt.(except the bath) Just to err on the side of caution.


[This message has been edited by ga.sparky56 (edited 02-15-2005).]


ECN Electrical Forums - sponsored by Electrical Contractor Network - Electrical and Code Related Discussion for Electrical Contractors, Electricians, Inspectors, Instructors, Engineers and other related Professionals