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#91855 - 02/09/05 12:42 PM Are Signs Listed
George Little Offline
Member

Registered: 01/18/04
Posts: 1492
Loc: Michigan USA
How important is it that a sign such as covered in Article 600 of the NEC, be Listed? Do the inspectors across this BB insist on a Listed marking on signs? Additionally, do they ask that the signs get a "sidewalk inspection" before they are installed on the wall?
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#91856 - 02/09/05 04:40 PM Re: Are Signs Listed
cpal Offline
Member

Registered: 05/17/04
Posts: 165
Loc: Cohasset MA
George I'm sure you know this but I will list for the forum.

600.3 Listing.
Electric signs and outline lighting — fixed, mobile, or portable — shall be listed and installed in conformance with that listing, unless otherwise approved by special permission.

In some cases the components with in the sign are listed and the enclosure must be evaluated by the AHJ.

In our area most of the sign companies hold a masters electricians license, In Mass thats a contractors license.(State Regs).

I am aware that in some cases the inspectors will visit the place of business where the signs are assembled, but all to often the signs are up before the Inspector arrives.

Hope that helps

Charlie

edited for spelling


[This message has been edited by cpal (edited 02-09-2005).]

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#91857 - 02/10/05 06:44 PM Re: Are Signs Listed
HotLine1 Offline

Member

Registered: 04/03/02
Posts: 6804
Loc: Brick, NJ USA
George:
Here in my areas of NJ the 'sign' must have a UL label.
As to the sidewalk inspection; 99.9% not a chance in hexx. They are up when we get the call.
'Signs' (boxes/channel letters) are usually not a 'problem', it's the NEON work (outline lighting & 'skeleton neon') that's the problem children.

BTW, do you have the mysterious midnight sign & neon guys in your area, or are they a NY metro area anomoly?? Leave a strip mall at 3:00PM, happen back at 7:30AM, and 'poof' there's a new neon install!!

John
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#91858 - 02/10/05 08:59 PM Re: Are Signs Listed
George Little Offline
Member

Registered: 01/18/04
Posts: 1492
Loc: Michigan USA
The motive behind my question was to find out if there were any cases where the sign was not Listed but was- "approved by special permission."

The reason for a sidewalk inspection in my jurisdiction would be to assure that it's Listed before it is installed. We all know that a sign company can't label a sign in the field per UL guidelines.

Another reason would be for inspection of workmanship and code compliance with Article 600 NEC.

Riding in a bucket is okay when you are inspecting a field installed outline lighting sign but IMHO a box sign or raceway mounted sign should get a sidewalk inspection.

As for "special permission" - in lieu of "Listed" it ain't gonna happen on my watch.

[This message has been edited by George Little (edited 02-11-2005).]
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#91859 - 02/10/05 10:01 PM Re: Are Signs Listed
dlabrenz Offline
Member

Registered: 09/04/01
Posts: 25
Loc: Muskegon, MI
George, I think that one requirement speaks volumes. Just by requiring a sign to be listed, the NEC has added a whole series of standards to the requirements for a sign that might otherwise need to be inserted into the language of the code such as UL 48 or UL 1433.
Signs installed in our jurisdiction are required to bear a listing mark. As for sidewalk inspections, we usually don't get called for the inspection until we send the cotractor a notice of violation reminding him he has to get his sign inspected.

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