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#91145 - 01/02/05 05:56 AM Application of Code Enforcement
Gary S Offline
Member

Registered: 12/29/04
Posts: 12
Loc: Houston, Texas, USA
In an area where the NEC has been adopted, does it apply to ALL crafts and to ALL people are does it only apply to licensed electricians and contractors?

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#91146 - 01/02/05 06:24 AM Re: Application of Code Enforcement
iwire Offline
Moderator

Registered: 01/05/03
Posts: 4343
Loc: North Attleboro, MA USA
Good question.

In my opinion there will be as many different answers as there are areas that have adopted the NEC.

Enforcement is not really covered by the NEC.

In my area we use an amended NEC.

90.4 Enforcement is rewritten along with 90.6 Interpretations and Appeals.

We also have an added 90.10, References to Commonwealth of Massachusetts Codes, Regulations, and Laws.

In the previous thread you and I where 'talking' in, I said carpenters where not bound to the NEC.

To be clear what I mean is an electrical inspector here has no power to make a carpenter do or fix anything they may have messed up.

Certainly if the carpenter builds shelving in front of my electrical panel the inspector will rightfully fail the job, but I get the violation, not the carpenter.

At that point I bring the problem to the GC and they figure out who has to pay to correct the mistake.

This is the same for me if I where to create a building code violation by cutting through a joist to run a raceway.

The building inspector would fail the rough building inspection and the carpentor would get the failure not me. Of course I will be paying for the carpenters time to fix the issue.

It will be interesting to see how other areas handle this.

Bob
_________________________
Bob Badger
Construction & Maintenance Electrician
Massachusetts

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#91147 - 01/02/05 06:28 AM Re: Application of Code Enforcement
George Little Offline
Member

Registered: 01/18/04
Posts: 1492
Loc: Michigan USA
Here in the State of Michigan we have adopted the 2002 NEC with amendments and all electrical installations are required to comply with State code. There are some facets of electrical installations that are installed by unlicensed people legally. They are required to comply with the State code. For example, Audio/Visual equipment, communication equipment, lawn sprinkler equipment and data wiring are quite often installed by unlicensed people and they get inspected and must comply with code.



[This message has been edited by George Little (edited 01-02-2005).]
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George Little

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#91148 - 01/02/05 06:52 AM Re: Application of Code Enforcement
Gary S Offline
Member

Registered: 12/29/04
Posts: 12
Loc: Houston, Texas, USA
Bob:

I made that statement (The NEC applies to ALL crafts)on the 2005 NEC forum after having only given it some superficial thought. I made the statement because I was wondering if the city or state inspection division could require the footing contractor to leave provisions for the electrician to connect the Ufer electrode.

Then I changed my mind after some of the responses. But then after I thought more, I came up with a scenario similar to yours where the carpenter blocks access to the electrical panels. Same could be for any craft who violates working spaces and the dedicated spaces above switchboards.

I am sure that we could come up with many scenarios were other crafts have to comply with the NEC... temporary wiring on construction sites comes to mind... extension cords and GFCI?

But as you said, in the end, it will be the Electrical Contractor who gets the red tag... although I can think of some construction scenarios that violate the NEC and there isn't even an electrical contractor for the project.

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#91149 - 01/02/05 07:02 AM Re: Application of Code Enforcement
iwire Offline
Moderator

Registered: 01/05/03
Posts: 4343
Loc: North Attleboro, MA USA
 Quote:
although I can think of some construction scenarios that violate the NEC and there isn't even an electrical contractor for the project.


I agree entirely, without a doubt that does happen and I can think of no easy answer.

There are plenty of pictures on this site of items built without regard for the NEC work space rules.

Joe T recently put a picture of a outdoor stair way that blocked access to a service meter.

Unless the power company pushes the issue I am sure it will remain that way.

Bob
_________________________
Bob Badger
Construction & Maintenance Electrician
Massachusetts

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#91150 - 01/02/05 09:53 AM Re: Application of Code Enforcement
gfretwell Offline

Member

Registered: 07/20/04
Posts: 9045
Loc: Estero,Fl,usa
In Florida the inspectors are trying to insure that only licensed electrical contractors are installing any kind of wire (we have low voltage specialty wiring licenses). They seemed shocked when I pointed out that the pool shooter is the one who bonds the pool. They also have problems with the low voltage for the vacuum, garage door and HVAC that gets run by "unlicensed" workers but it will be the EC who takes the violation.
I only wonder how long it will be before they start busting unlicensed phone installers. The "phone company" and "cable company" subs all of this out to "contractors" who are simply casual labor guys who may or may not even have an occupational license and certainly don't have a limited EC license.
It should be noted that phone is class 3 725 wiring, not really even "low voltage". It is power limited but the voltage can be over 100vac when the phone is ringing. "On hook" voltage is about 48v.
When they really do start cracking down on this it will bring shock waves across the telecom wiring industry.
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Greg Fretwell

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#91151 - 01/02/05 03:33 PM Re: Application of Code Enforcement
PCBelarge Offline
Member

Registered: 06/08/03
Posts: 657
Loc: Dobbs Ferry, NY, USA
In Westchester County, NY, when we inspect a job that has violations that are not created by the electrical contractor, we cite the violation to the property owner. The property owner and the Building Department get copies of the violation, and the Building Department follows up with us/property owner to make sure it is cleared. There is no reason that the EC has to be cited.
This procedure was developed by me and the Building Departments/municipalities when I was building this company.

Pierre
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Pierre Belarge

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#91152 - 01/03/05 01:03 PM Re: Application of Code Enforcement
HotLine1 Offline

Member

Registered: 04/03/02
Posts: 6804
Loc: Brick, NJ USA
The NEC, as adopted by the State of NJ as the 'Electrical Sub-Code' is a part of the State Uniform Construction Code (UCC; 5:23 et al)

The enforcement and compliance items are 'as written' within the UCC (Blue Book)

This "Electrical Sub-Code" must be complied with by anyone performing 'Electrical Work' as defined within 5:23. EC's, homeowners, phone/data; alarm, etc.

It's a lot of details, all written in legaleese, but I think my synopsis above condenses it into a brief paragraph.

John
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John

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#91153 - 01/03/05 07:02 PM Re: Application of Code Enforcement
harold endean Offline
Member

Registered: 02/16/02
Posts: 2248
Loc: Boonton, NJ
Just to add my 2 cents to John's reply, NJ is making other people get a license. The are fire/burg alarm installers, lawn irrigation people, and even home improvment contractors (who will be lic. later this year). The FA/BA alarm people only get a low voltage license as does the lawn irrigation people. Anyone Line voltage, Elec. Cont., lawn people, FA/BA people and even homeowners, all have follow the NEC that my state adopts.

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#91154 - 01/03/05 09:15 PM Re: Application of Code Enforcement
nesparky Offline
Member

Registered: 06/21/01
Posts: 650
Loc: omaha,ne
It's up to the AHJ and prosecuters. Even if the adopted laws and regulations allow other trades to be prosecuted the AHJ has to get them to court.
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ed

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