ECN Electrical Forum - Discussion Forums for Electricians, Inspectors and Related Professionals

ECN Shout Chat
Top Posters(30 Days)
Admin 19
Recent Posts
fuse rejectors
by NORCAL. 03/29/17 01:44 AM
Old decora style outlets
by NORCAL. 03/29/17 01:41 AM
NFPA stuff
by gfretwell. 03/28/17 08:08 PM
Anyone hiring inspectors?
by HotLine1. 03/27/17 08:03 AM
ESA Arc flash course
by TheShockDoctors. 03/24/17 10:15 AM
New in the Gallery:
SE cable question
Popular Topics(Views)
231,882 Are you busy
166,762 Re: Forum
160,878 Need opinion
Who's Online Now
0 registered members (), 90 guests, and 10 spiders.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Rate This Thread
#90928 - 12/18/04 10:42 AM Single-phase cord-and-plug-connected room air conditioners?  
Joe Tedesco  Offline
Member
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 2,749
Boston, Massachusetts USA
Does anyone know if these are available yet?

Quote
440.65 Leakage Current Detection and Interruption (LCDI) and Arc Fault Circuit Interrupter (AFCI).

Single-phase cord-and-plug-connected room air conditioners shall be provided with factory-installed LCDI or AFCI protection.

The LCDI or AFCI protection shall be an integral part of the attachment plug or be located in the power supply cord within 300 mm (12 in.) of the attachment plug.


Joe Tedesco, NEC Consultant

2017 / 2014 NEC & Related Books and Study Guides

#90929 - 12/18/04 11:21 AM Re: Single-phase cord-and-plug-connected room air conditioners?  
Ron  Offline
Member
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 582
White Plains, NY


Ron

#90930 - 12/18/04 10:27 PM Re: Single-phase cord-and-plug-connected room air conditioners?  
Joe Tedesco  Offline
Member
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 2,749
Boston, Massachusetts USA
Thanks Ron, I have seen that product at trade shows. The rule calls for "factory installed ...." so the Fireshield may be what is used. I wondered if the AC units are or will become available with the AFCI, etc., installed. I am sure we wouldn't want to see someone replace the cord on a unit.


Joe Tedesco, NEC Consultant

#90931 - 12/19/04 12:33 AM Re: Single-phase cord-and-plug-connected room air conditioners?  
gfretwell  Offline


Member
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 9,060
Estero,Fl,usa
This has been in the code since 2002 but I have never been sure how you enforce it.
Does this mean anyone with a window shaker that preceeds this requirement has to throw it away?
I have never actually seen one. I guess the next time I am in Home Depot I will look at the floor models. Can I red tag the units if the AFCIs aren't there :-)


Greg Fretwell

#90932 - 12/21/04 05:48 PM Re: Single-phase cord-and-plug-connected room air conditioners?  
tdhorne  Offline
Member
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 345
Maryland, USA
What we are talking about is UL listed portable appliances. So if it has a listing mark and there is no evidence of modification it is beyond the inspectors perview.
--
Tom H


Tom Horne

"This alternating current stuff is just a fad. It is much too dangerous for general use" Thomas Alva Edison

#90933 - 12/22/04 12:02 AM Re: Single-phase cord-and-plug-connected room air conditioners?  
resqcapt19  Offline
Member
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 2,148
IL
How do requirements for "plug-in" appliances fit the scope of the NEC?
[quote]90.2 Scope.
(A) Covered. This Code covers the installation of electric conductors, electric equipment, signaling and communications conductors and equipment, and fiber optic cables and raceways for the following:[/quiote]
In my opinion plug-in equipment is "used", not installed. The NEC should stop at the receptacle and let the product safety standards cover the plug-in equipment. If we keep adding rules to cover plug-in equipment the code will soon be a multi-volume book.
Don


Don(resqcapt19)

#90934 - 12/22/04 01:08 AM Re: Single-phase cord-and-plug-connected room air conditioners?  
gfretwell  Offline


Member
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 9,060
Estero,Fl,usa
It's what I call "code creep". Immersion detectors on hair dryers have been in the code for a few cycles (also unenforceable). We are going to be inspecting table lamps and clock radios soon.


Greg Fretwell

#90935 - 12/22/04 08:22 AM Re: Single-phase cord-and-plug-connected room air conditioners?  
George Little  Offline
Member
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 1,489
Michigan USA
Greg- You guys are starting to scare me. It looks like all the people have to do is unplug the questionable equipment and the code is satisfied. What about heat tapes for ice melting? What about portable signs? What about swimming pool equipment? We're suppost to protect the public interest. If I/we don't say something about the non code compliant equipment and they run into trouble with it, they come back and say "Why didn't you tell us"? The attorneys will have a hay day with that one.


George Little

#90936 - 12/22/04 01:44 PM Re: Single-phase cord-and-plug-connected room air conditioners?  
gfretwell  Offline


Member
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 9,060
Estero,Fl,usa
"It looks like all the people have to do is unplug the questionable equipment and the code is satisfied."

Is part of the final inspection going to be searching the moving van for unlisted equipment?
I can understand "fixed in place" cord and plug connected being subject to inspection on the final but what can we do about things that the new owner brings with him or buys after the CO? (Window shakers and hair dryers) How is that our business? Are we supposed to be raiding flea markets and looking for listing tags at the Home Depot?


Greg Fretwell


Member Spotlight
Attic Rat
Attic Rat
Bergen Co.,N.J. USA
Posts: 524
Joined: December 2003
Show All Member Profiles 
Featured:

2017 NEC and Related
2017 NEC
Now Available!

Shout Box
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.6.0
Page Time: 0.022s Queries: 14 (0.003s) Memory: 0.8010 MB (Peak: 0.9664 MB) Zlib enabled. Server Time: 2017-03-30 18:35:55 UTC