The Electrical Contractor Network

ECN Electrical Forum
Discussion Forums for Electricians, Inspectors and Related Professionals

Books, Tools and Test Equipment for Electrical and Construction Trades

Register Now!

Register Now!

We want your input!

Featured:
   

2017 NEC and Related
2017 NEC
Now Available!

   
Recent Posts
Sprinklered equipment 26-008
by bigpapa
12/02/16 04:24 PM
On Delay Relay with Auto Reset
by Potseal
12/01/16 09:59 AM
Wow, that was close!
by jraef
11/28/16 07:06 PM
Earthquake in New Zeeland
by RODALCO
11/27/16 11:25 PM
Calling all Non-US members!! (Non-US only)
by Tjia1981
11/27/16 06:33 AM
New in the Gallery:
12.5A through 0.75mm flex (just out of curiosity)
Shout Box

Top Posters (30 Days)
gfretwell 13
HotLine1 9
Texas_Ranger 8
Trumpy 8
sparkyinak 7
Who's Online
0 registered (), 99 Guests and 4 Spiders online.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Topic Options
Rate This Topic
#90557 - 11/29/04 10:36 AM Terminal Rating
mustangelectric Offline
Member

Registered: 02/08/04
Posts: 496
Loc: Bentonville, AR
Hi,
If I use the 90 column of 310.16 do the terminal of the OCPD like a breaker have to be rated for AT least the same rating as that of the conductor?

What table do you use most for SE conductors?

I am sizing the conductors for a 200A Service for a commercial job. Can I use 2/0 copper that is from the 90Celcius column?

-regards

Mustang
_________________________
Electricity has no respect for ignorance!

Top
2014 / 2011 NEC & Related Books and Study Guides
#90558 - 11/29/04 11:39 AM Re: Terminal Rating
iwire Offline
Moderator

Registered: 01/05/03
Posts: 4343
Loc: North Attleboro, MA USA
The only time you can use the 90 C column is to start your derating calculations.

You will need to use the 75 C column and 3/0 copper for a 200 amp commercial service.

If the calculated load is under 180 amps you could also use 4/0 AL.

Glad to see you stuck around.

Bob
_________________________
Bob Badger
Construction & Maintenance Electrician
Massachusetts

Top
#90559 - 11/30/04 10:16 AM Re: Terminal Rating
JBD Offline
Member

Registered: 07/12/01
Posts: 599
Loc: WI, USA
There are no UL Listed overcurrent devices, of any type or manufacturer, that are rated for use with wire/cable sized using the 90C ampacity column.

Top
#90560 - 11/30/04 10:20 AM Re: Terminal Rating
mustangelectric Offline
Member

Registered: 02/08/04
Posts: 496
Loc: Bentonville, AR
Hi,
Thanks for the interesting replies. I was not aware that there were no equipment rated for 90 celcius.

Why is that?

-regards

Mustang

[This message has been edited by mustangelectric (edited 11-30-2004).]
_________________________
Electricity has no respect for ignorance!

Top
#90561 - 11/30/04 10:52 AM Re: Terminal Rating
energy7 Offline
Member

Registered: 06/10/02
Posts: 58
Loc: Oxnard, CA, USA
You can only use the lowest common temp. rating, including terminations, per 110-14(C).
For instance, feeders would include OCPD temp rating at main switchboard/panel, conductor temp. rating, and temp. rating at lugs at subpanel. SWBD and panels are typically 75°C per the listing info on the panel covers, and THWN is 75°, so 75° can be used.
For branch circuits, the OCPD ratings are 75° or 60°, per what's printed on the device, the conductor rating (usually 75° for THWN), and the utilization device (usually 60°); so you usually have to use 60° for branch circuits.
I rarely ever see a combination of conductors and terminations that allow the use of 90°.


[This message has been edited by energy7 (edited 11-30-2004).]

Top
#90562 - 11/30/04 01:23 PM Re: Terminal Rating
resqcapt19 Offline
Member

Registered: 11/10/00
Posts: 2209
Loc: IL
 Quote:
I was not aware that there were no equipment rated for 90 celcius. Why is that?

What do you think your customers would say after they burnt their fingers on the electrical equipment that you installed? 90°C is 194°F. That will burn you.
Don

[This message has been edited by resqcapt19 (edited 11-30-2004).]
_________________________
Don(resqcapt19)

Top
#90563 - 11/30/04 03:20 PM Re: Terminal Rating
mustangelectric Offline
Member

Registered: 02/08/04
Posts: 496
Loc: Bentonville, AR
Hi,
Thanks again for the replies. I realize that 90 c is a high temp but these types of conductors are designed for use in high temp areas are they not? Like on a boiler or furnace or nuclear reactor?

Where in the heck would you use these conductors? Where would you install conductors like these where they would be accessible to personnel?

I was thinking that this is the maximum allowable temperature of the conductor BEFORE overheating not normal operating temp.

Interesting.

-regards
_________________________
Electricity has no respect for ignorance!

Top
#90564 - 11/30/04 03:33 PM Re: Terminal Rating
sandsnow Offline
Member

Registered: 09/21/04
Posts: 163
Loc: Irvine, CA, USA
The temperature rating of insulation is about heat generated by current flow as well as heat imposed upon the conductor by the surrounding ambient just as you said.
Some more examples:
Most luminaires require a specific insul temp.
Flourescents 90deg
Some incandescants with the bulb base up and wiring compartment on top - 90deg and higher
Romex is required to be 90deg conductor type because of the ambient.
_________________________
Larry LeVoir
Inspector
City of Irvine, CA

Top
#90565 - 12/01/04 04:07 AM Re: Terminal Rating
George Little Offline
Member

Registered: 01/18/04
Posts: 1492
Loc: Michigan USA
The statment:
 Quote:
There are no UL Listed overcurrent devices, of any type or manufacturer, that are rated for use with wire/cable sized using the 90C ampacity column.

Needs to be qualified a little bit by saying for 600v or less. Once you get over 600v. there are terminals rated for 90 degree C and the 90 degree column in wiring tables is acceptable for termination.

[This message has been edited by George Little (edited 12-01-2004).]
_________________________
George Little

Top
#90566 - 12/01/04 06:36 AM Re: Terminal Rating
JBD Offline
Member

Registered: 07/12/01
Posts: 599
Loc: WI, USA
mea culpa

George, you are correct about the 600V. I swear I had edited my original post, but I geuss I remembered it wrong.

Top



ECN Electrical Forums - sponsored by Electrical Contractor Network - Electrical and Code Related Discussion for Electrical Contractors, Electricians, Inspectors, Instructors, Engineers and other related Professionals