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#90507 - 11/24/04 03:14 PM type SER cable
shortcircuit Offline
Member
Registered: 06/27/04
Posts: 608
Loc: massachusetts
In a recent post by "royta" 11-18-04 he mentioned type 6-3 SER in a 3/4 inch pipe to a building, which I think is a underground installation.I looked at a job today with a 2inch pvc underground to a barn with a 2/3 SER aluminum cable stuffed in it to feed a panel.

I thought that Type SE or SER was only for above ground use...even if in a conduit...right?

shortcircuit
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#90508 - 11/24/04 06:12 PM Re: type SER cable
hbiss Offline
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Registered: 12/16/03
Posts: 886
Loc: Hawthorne, NY USA
Right.

-Hal
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#90509 - 11/24/04 07:17 PM Re: type SER cable
Redsy Offline
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Registered: 03/28/01
Posts: 2056
Loc: Bucks County PA
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#90510 - 11/26/04 08:17 AM Re: type SER cable
tdhorne Offline
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Registered: 03/22/01
Posts: 345
Loc: Maryland, USA
Quote:
I thought that Type SE or SER was only for above ground use...even if in a conduit...right?
Sorry that is wrong. Type USE is limited to underground and outdoor use because it is not fire retardant treated. Type SE and Se-R is permissible in any application were Type USE is allowed as well as for inside of buildings because it is fire retardent treated. Type SE-R has the bare conductor as an individual conductor rather than as an overwrap of the other conductors. The R=round were a "C" would mean Concentric. Type SE-R is permitted in underground conduit. The conduit fill calculation is done by taking the cross sectional area of the cable and assuring that it is less than fifty three percent of the cross sectional area of the conduit. In other words for conduit fill purposes the entire cable is treated as a single conductor.
--
Tom H

[This message has been edited by tdhorne (edited 11-26-2004).]
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Tom Horne

"This alternating current stuff is just a fad. It is much too dangerous for general use" Thomas Alva Edison
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#90511 - 11/26/04 08:32 AM Re: type SER cable
iwire Offline
Moderator
Registered: 01/05/03
Posts: 4391
Loc: North Attleboro, MA USA
Tom do you have any references for using SE underground?

2003 UL White Book
SERVICE CABLE (TXKT)
SERVICE ENTRANCE CABLE (TYLZ)
GENERAL
Quote:
The cable is designated as follows:
Type SE — Indicates cable for aboveground installation. Both the individual insulated conductors and the outer jacket or finish of Type SE are suitable for use where exposed to sun.


I can not find anything that says Type SE is allowed underground.

Bob
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Bob Badger
Construction & Maintenance Electrician
Massachusetts
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#90512 - 11/26/04 08:39 AM Re: type SER cable
iwire Offline
Moderator
Registered: 01/05/03
Posts: 4391
Loc: North Attleboro, MA USA
I should have included the USE info too.

2003 UL White Book
SERVICE CABLE (TXKT)
SERVICE ENTRANCE CABLE (TYLZ)
GENERAL

Quote:
Types USE and USE-2 — Indicates cable for underground installation including direct burial in the earth. Cable in sizes 4/0 AWG and smaller and having all conductors insulated is suitable for all of the underground uses for which Type UF cable is permitted by the NEC. Types USE and USE-2 are not suitable for use in premises or aboveground except to terminate at the service equipment or metering equipment. Both the insulation and the outer covering, when used, on single and multiconductor Types USE and USE-2, are suitable for use where exposed to sun.
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Construction & Maintenance Electrician
Massachusetts
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#90513 - 11/26/04 08:55 AM Re: type SER cable
tdhorne Offline
Member
Registered: 03/22/01
Posts: 345
Loc: Maryland, USA
338.2 Definitions.
Service-Entrance Cable. A single conductor or multiconductor assembly provided with or without an overall covering, primarily used for services, and of the following types:
Type SE. Service-entrance cable having a flame-retardant, moisture-resistant covering.
Type USE. Service-entrance cable, identified for underground use, having a moisture-resistant covering, but not required to have a flame-retardant covering.

Notice that the difference between the two cable types is that type USE is not required to have a flame retardant outer jacket. That is what limits it to outdoors, if sunlight resistant, and underground. Type SE has all the characteristics of Type USE and it also has a flame-retardant covering. Type SE can be used anywhere that type USE can be used as well as being used as feeder and branch circuits in any application were type NM can be used. The U in Type USE is to limit it's use to underground rather than to limit the use of type SE to above ground. We have batted around the idea that conduit is a wet location when installed outdoors. I don't think that any of us would argue that a conduit that is above ground outdoors is uniquely different than the same conduit underground.

Let me point out that Type SE Style R is the only type of SE commercially available in most ares that has four conductors. Has anyone here seen four conductor type USE cable. How do you think that three phase service gets done were the cable has to extend indoors to reach the service equipment cabinet? Do all of you build raceway to enclose individual single conductor type USE cables?
--
Tom H

[This message has been edited by tdhorne (edited 11-26-2004).]
_________________________
Tom Horne

"This alternating current stuff is just a fad. It is much too dangerous for general use" Thomas Alva Edison
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#90514 - 11/26/04 09:02 AM Re: type SER cable
iwire Offline
Moderator
Registered: 01/05/03
Posts: 4391
Loc: North Attleboro, MA USA
Tom, characteristics not withstanding SE is not UL listed for underground use.

Unless you have some info that says otherwise.

Bob
_________________________
Bob Badger
Construction & Maintenance Electrician
Massachusetts
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#90515 - 11/26/04 09:04 AM Re: type SER cable
iwire Offline
Moderator
Registered: 01/05/03
Posts: 4391
Loc: North Attleboro, MA USA
Quote:
Let me point out that Type SE Style R is the only type of SE commercially available in most ares that has four conductors. Has anyone here seen four conductor type USE cable. How do you think that three phase service gets done were the cable has to extend indoors to reach the service equipment cabinet? Do all of you build raceway to enclose individual single conductor type USE cables?


Run RHW in a raceway?
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Bob Badger
Construction & Maintenance Electrician
Massachusetts
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#90516 - 11/26/04 10:16 AM Re: type SER cable
tdhorne Offline
Member
Registered: 03/22/01
Posts: 345
Loc: Maryland, USA
The maxim of the law is that silence is consent. That means that anything that the law does not specifically forbid it allows.
--
Tom H
_________________________
Tom Horne

"This alternating current stuff is just a fad. It is much too dangerous for general use" Thomas Alva Edison
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