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#90420 - 11/20/04 06:26 PM Sign and Fountains  
George Little  Offline
Member
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 1,489
Michigan USA
How close to a fountian can I install a permanently installed sign? We are talking not inthe fountian but outside the fountian.


George Little

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#90421 - 11/20/04 06:48 PM Re: Sign and Fountains  
russ m  Offline
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Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 169
Burbank,IL,USA
I can't see why it can,t be next to the fountain, 680.6


#90422 - 11/20/04 06:57 PM Re: Sign and Fountains  
russ m  Offline
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Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 169
Burbank,IL,USA
680.22(B)(1) and(3) seem to apply also, If we are talking about a sign with lights in or on it.


#90423 - 11/20/04 10:01 PM Re: Sign and Fountains  
George Little  Offline
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Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 1,489
Michigan USA
Russ, I looked at your code references and I think that they wouldn't apply since that Section (Section II.) is dealing about Permanently Installed Pools. I'm looking at Section V. which deals with Fountains. 680.57(C) deals with Signs and there locations in the fountian and with Portable Signs outside the fountain. Nothing about permanently installed signs outside the fountain. I also didn't find anything in Section I (General) that helped me.

[This message has been edited by George Little (edited 11-20-2004).]


George Little

#90424 - 11/21/04 03:06 AM Re: Sign and Fountains  
gfretwell  Offline


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Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 9,060
Estero,Fl,usa
I have seen signs IN the fountain. Is that close enough? I would apply the 680.57 rules.
If it is just next to the fountain, isn't that simply a "wet location"?
Am I missing something?
Is this a neon sign or just a 120v deal?


[This message has been edited by gfretwell (edited 11-21-2004).]


Greg Fretwell

#90425 - 11/21/04 03:42 AM Re: Sign and Fountains  
George Little  Offline
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Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 1,489
Michigan USA
Greg- this example is hypothetical, I was teaching a class and we were covering Article 680 and a student raised the question. The code covers it if the sign is in the fountain and if the sign is portable and outside the fountain but says nothing if it is permanently installed outside the fountain. Leads one to believe that it can be right next to the fountian with no restrictions or any special bonding or GFCI protection. Go figure??

[This message has been edited by George Little (edited 11-21-2004).]


George Little

#90426 - 11/21/04 04:46 PM Re: Sign and Fountains  
russ m  Offline
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Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 169
Burbank,IL,USA
George

If there is a pool (doesn't say what kind) associated with the fountain, then part two of 680 would apply.
OK lets say there no type of collection pool.

Part 1 680.6(2) pertains to all electrical equipment within 5ft of the (pool) fountain.

Don't mean to be repettive but thats how I read it.


[This message has been edited by russ m (edited 11-21-2004).]


#90427 - 11/21/04 09:17 PM Re: Sign and Fountains  
George Little  Offline
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Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 1,489
Michigan USA
I have concluded that if an electric sign is in the fountain, it must be at least 5 feet from the outside edge of the fountain and if it is permanently installed outside the fountain it can be right next ro the edge of the fountain and no special wiring methods apply. If it is a portable sign outside the fountain it must be located at least 5 feet from the edge of the fountain and be GFCI protected.

[This message has been edited by George Little (edited 11-21-2004).]

[This message has been edited by George Little (edited 11-21-2004).]

[This message has been edited by George Little (edited 11-21-2004).]


George Little


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