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#9 - 10/07/00 10:27 AM Scope of Forum - Suggestions?
Webmaster Offline

Administrator
Member

Registered: 10/07/00
Posts: 3142
Loc: NY, USA
Welcome to our new Forum!

We hope it will be very productive for all concerned.

We welcome questions regarding our trade and it's codes, - We have some very experienced and knowledgeable users who can answer almost anything. But please remember that this is not a How - To related forum for untrained persons and questions of this sort are not the reason for it's existence. Please feel free to use it for interaction with other members also. If you would like to recommend topics for different discussion areas - Please do. This is here for your use - Tell us how you think We can make the best of it. For ease of use, Please try and post messages within appropriate Areas.

Thank You,

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#10 - 01/13/02 05:19 PM Re: Scope of Forum - Suggestions?
Joe Tedesco Offline
Member

Registered: 10/07/00
Posts: 3325
Loc: Boston, Massachusetts USA
Hey Bill:

Look here the first post --- and the board has come a long way!
_________________________
Joe Tedesco, NEC Consultant

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#11 - 01/13/02 05:28 PM Re: Scope of Forum - Suggestions?
sparky Offline
Member

Registered: 10/18/00
Posts: 5545
IMHO
the forum 'Electrical Contractor' could invite more concerns of a contractual nature

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#12 - 01/13/02 05:39 PM Re: Scope of Forum - Suggestions?
Chris Rudolph Offline
Member

Registered: 05/01/01
Posts: 160
Loc: Winter Park,Fl USA
Would you please give some examples of what is and what isn't appropriate as it relates to HOW-TO.
Chris

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#13 - 01/13/02 06:24 PM Re: Scope of Forum - Suggestions?
George Corron Offline
Member

Registered: 05/16/01
Posts: 728
Loc: Lorton, Va USA
NOT a forum for untrained persons????
Well, there goes my reason for being here.

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#14 - 01/13/02 10:10 PM Re: Scope of Forum - Suggestions?
Bill Addiss Offline
Member

Registered: 10/07/00
Posts: 4196
Loc: NY, USA
Joe,

Whoa! Haven't seen this in awhile!
Yes, we've come a long way

Sparky,

Can you be more specific??

Chris,

That's a tough answer to put into words. My vision of the Forum includes it being open to all, but possibly for different reasons.

Most of us in the trade can tell when we're talking to someone with limited knowledge of electricity and electrical safety. When a person like this asks a safety-related question we should be happy to help them understand the hazards involved and steer them towards a proper course of action (usually to seek the help of a professional)

When this same untrained person is asking how to wire something it gets uncomfortable for us. Because we cannot gauge the knowledge or abilities of this person, any help along those lines may actually be putting them or others in danger. If they don't know how to do it they may hire a 'pro'. If they think they know, well, that could be dangerous ..

Wiring is something that should left up to professionals and those serious and responsible enough to learn how to do it safely (and to code) and not just making it work.

Code, Theory, Safety - they all have to go together as far as I'm concerned.

Does this make sense?

Bill

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#15 - 01/14/02 02:35 AM Re: Scope of Forum - Suggestions?
Joe Tedesco Offline
Member

Registered: 10/07/00
Posts: 3325
Loc: Boston, Massachusetts USA
Bill, All Existing, New, and Future ECN Members:

I believe that we should be concerned about the types of questions, and answers posted here!

Bill's remarks here make sense, and I agree with them. This is not the place for UNTRAINED persons!

Please see Section 90.1(C) in the 2002 NEC.

"Intention. This Code is not intended as a design specification or an instruction manual for untrained persons.

See also the Article 100 definition of: Qualified Person. One who has skills and knowledge related to the construction and operation of the electrical equipment and installations and has received safety training on the hazards involved.

If someone needs help, or asks a question when it comes to an installation, or code rule, or some other situation it should not be our job to train them here on this forum.

Some of us are licensed journeyman, and master electricians, and are certified electrical inspectors with many years of experience in this industry. Some members may also be electrical engineers.

It would be interesting to hear what others have to say.

Joe
_________________________
Joe Tedesco, NEC Consultant

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#16 - 01/14/02 07:55 AM Re: Scope of Forum - Suggestions?
Bill Addiss Offline
Member

Registered: 10/07/00
Posts: 4196
Loc: NY, USA
Joe,

I can't completely agree with your statements. Some of what you describe regarding code rules and installation questions is something that is common practice and perfectly justified when it's between those in the trade or others with serious interest in the trade. Without these we'd have nothing to talk about.

I think that the distinction has to be made on what questions are appropriate here depending on who is asking and the the way the question is asked. We can't always tell who we are talking to or their level of competance, but at some point if we determine that someone does not posess the skills or knowledge to perform a job safely we should advise them to seek training, hire a pro, etc.

It's a fine point and difficult to describe, but I think that we've all made decisions like this before and should have some idea where I'm coming from. There is a difference between someone asking how to rewire a 3 phase motor for higher voltage and someone asking "where do I put the black and white wire" And we don't want to exclude the student from some basic questions either.

So, clear as mud, right?
any other thoughts?

Bill

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#17 - 01/14/02 08:20 AM Re: Scope of Forum - Suggestions?
Joe Tedesco Offline
Member

Registered: 10/07/00
Posts: 3325
Loc: Boston, Massachusetts USA
Bill:

My comments were very clear and straightfoward and they expressed my personal opinion. I have been involved in the electrical industry for over 37 years, so I guess I am too strict.

Your comments are based upon your desire to keep everyone happy, and that's OK.

I have no problem, you should monitor the technical posts and decide which ones are appropriate for this location.

Joe

[This message has been edited by Joe Tedesco (edited 01-14-2002).]
_________________________
Joe Tedesco, NEC Consultant

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#18 - 01/14/02 09:23 AM Re: Scope of Forum - Suggestions?
mamills Offline
Member

Registered: 11/30/01
Posts: 739
Loc: Wharton, Texas, USA
Before the flames start, let me add my two cents worth..

I most certainly agree that this should not turn into a "how to" forum. There are indeed so many variables...the background, skill and competence of the worker, and the quality of equipment being used notwithstanding, each installation is unique in some way. Trying to give step by step instructions, or diagnose an electrical malady in cyberspace can leave one open to tremendous liability.

Regrettably, my knowledge base does not qualify me in any way as an electrician. Any one of you could easily determine that after a minute or two of conversation with me. Without the proper literature in hand, I would have no idea how to rewire a 3ph. motor for higher voltage operation (citing Bill's example), but, at the same time, I feel my experience goes a ways beyond knowing where the black and white wires go. In the past, I have done some electrical work at my community theatre building here, as well as in my own home...all this done after a thorough review of the NEC and local area codes, a LOT of reading, and an inspection by a friend of mine who is a Master Electrician in every sense of the word, and in whom I have implicit trust.

I guess what this all boils down to is this; though I am certainly "untrained" by any standard you may wish to apply, am I out of place attempting to learn from this forum, as well as deriving a certain amount of enjoyment from interacting with the other people here?

Got my PPE on now (to cover my thin skin), so let 'er rip...

Mike (mamills)



[This message has been edited by mamills (edited 01-14-2002).]

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