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#89996 - 10/27/04 02:45 PM grounding
shortcircuit Offline
Member

Registered: 06/27/04
Posts: 608
Loc: massachusetts
Went on a service call today to install some timers in a multi gang new work box in a fairly new dwelling and the grounding conductors were made up seperatly for each set of switches according to the circuit that they were fed from.I was taught that the grounding conductors must always be all connected together at each juction box even if from different circuits.

Am I correct?

What code requires the grounds to be connected together at each juction?

shortcircuit

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#89997 - 10/27/04 02:49 PM Re: grounding
Ryan_J Offline
Moderator

Registered: 08/19/03
Posts: 1355
Loc: West Jordan, Utah, USA
The closest thing I can think of is 250.148, although it is certaintly not clear and very subject to interpretation.
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Salt Lake City

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#89998 - 10/27/04 03:04 PM Re: grounding
iwire Offline
Moderator

Registered: 01/05/03
Posts: 4343
Loc: North Attleboro, MA USA
Ryan IMO 250.148 requires it.

 Quote:
250.148 Continuity and Attachment of Equipment Grounding Conductors to Boxes.
Where circuit conductors are spliced within a box, or terminated on equipment within or supported by a box, any separate equipment grounding conductors associated with those circuit conductors shall be spliced or joined within the box or to the box with devices suitable for the use. Connections depending solely on solder shall not be used. Splices shall be made in accordance with 110.14(B) except that insulation shall not be required. The arrangement of grounding connections shall be such that the disconnection or the removal of a receptacle, luminaire (fixture), or other device fed from the box will not interfere with or interrupt the grounding continuity.

Exception: The equipment grounding conductor permitted in 250.146(D) shall not be required to be connected to the other equipment grounding conductors or to the box.


I see spliced or joined to the box, either way they end up eclectically connected.

I also would ask what exception would be needed for if the main part of the section did not require all grounding conductors to be joined?

Bob

EDIT:

That should be electrically not eclectically

[This message has been edited by iwire (edited 10-27-2004).]
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Bob Badger
Construction & Maintenance Electrician
Massachusetts

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#89999 - 10/27/04 03:08 PM Re: grounding
Ryan_J Offline
Moderator

Registered: 08/19/03
Posts: 1355
Loc: West Jordan, Utah, USA
Bob: I agree, although I wouldn't mind seeing the term "...shall be spliced or joined together within the box.
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Salt Lake City

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#90000 - 10/27/04 03:22 PM Re: grounding
CTwireman Offline
Member

Registered: 02/07/02
Posts: 839
Loc: Connecticut, USA
Bob,

I know we argued about this before, but since the code article is there.....

Do you (or anyone else) think this section disallows solder to connect the EGC's?

Note the wording is "connections" and not "connectors."

I'm still not sure.

Peter
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#90001 - 10/27/04 03:34 PM Re: grounding
Ryan_J Offline
Moderator

Registered: 08/19/03
Posts: 1355
Loc: West Jordan, Utah, USA
In my opinion you can solder until you're blue in the face, it just can't be the sole connection. 250.8 will tell you the same thing. So does 110.14(B).

[This message has been edited by Ryan_J (edited 10-27-2004).]
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Ryan Jackson,
Salt Lake City

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#90002 - 10/27/04 03:53 PM Re: grounding
iwire Offline
Moderator

Registered: 01/05/03
Posts: 4343
Loc: North Attleboro, MA USA
Ryan maybe you have never seen how it had been done for years. It is before my time but I have opened up plenty of them.

Twist the solid conductors together (that is the 'other' connection) then solder.

You now have a two connections.

I have pulled these splices out of severely overstuffed boxes, usually a 3" round box, and have never seen one of these go bad.

I think it was Joe T that posted some pictures of how to 'twist' 500 kcmil together before soldering.

I could not find the old instructions but here is a large soldered splice.



http://electrical-contractor.net/ubb/Forum4/HTML/000368.html

You gotta love the box fill.
_________________________
Bob Badger
Construction & Maintenance Electrician
Massachusetts

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#90003 - 10/28/04 08:04 AM Re: grounding
John Steinke Offline
Member

Registered: 04/03/01
Posts: 509
Loc: Reno,Nv., USA
Electrical connections must be "electrically and mechanically connected." Simple solder will qualify for the 'electrical' part, but, since solder loses its' strength when it gets hot, does not meet the 'mechanical' part. Twisting the wires does 'mechanically' connect them, and solder was thought to improve conductivity. Solder was also thought to make the connection 'permanent,' as opposed to simply twisting the wires together for a temporary connection.
Keep in mind that wires were being connected for some time before wire nuts were invented.

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#90004 - 10/28/04 12:29 PM Re: grounding
gfretwell Offline

Member

Registered: 07/20/04
Posts: 9045
Loc: Estero,Fl,usa
I am old enough to remember using the western union splice, then soldering. I think you could tow a car behind that splice.
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Greg Fretwell

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#90005 - 10/28/04 01:35 PM Re: grounding
shortcircuit Offline
Member

Registered: 06/27/04
Posts: 608
Loc: massachusetts
Ryan_J and Iwire...thanx for refreshing my memory as to the code that applies to the connection of all grounding conductors at a juction point...250.148... where the circuit conductors are spliced also of coarse.

shortcircuit

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