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#89906 - 10/23/04 09:29 PM Swimming Pool Question
George Little Offline
Member

Registered: 01/18/04
Posts: 1492
Loc: Michigan USA
The 2002 NEC at 600.23(B)(2)(b) identifies the #8 insulated conductor as a "grounding conductor". Does this mean that if the Deck box is located between 4 and 5 feet from the water's edge that I must also bond this box? Just how would you do this?

[This message has been edited by George Little (edited 10-24-2004).]
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George Little

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#89907 - 10/23/04 10:04 PM Re: Swimming Pool Question
gfretwell Offline

Member

Registered: 07/20/04
Posts: 9045
Loc: Estero,Fl,usa
I got into this with the guys on the Florida IAEI site. Basically they have a problem saying we are bonding the pool to the service grounding electrode even though this path exists through at least 2 #12s. By calling the wire from the forming shell to the deck box a "grounding" wire they can turn a blind eye to the fact that they just made the pool part of the grounding electrode system. Since that forming shell is bonded to pool steel on the same metal strap as the "grounding" lug and the bonding screw to the light shell, with it's EGC, it
would be redundant to bring another #8 over to the deck box from there.
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#89908 - 10/24/04 08:25 AM Re: Swimming Pool Question
George Little Offline
Member

Registered: 01/18/04
Posts: 1492
Loc: Michigan USA
The pictures in the "Analysis of Changes" published as a partnership of NFPA and IAEI show the Deck box being connected to the bonding grid with a #8 conductor in addition to the #8 "grounding conductor" inside the conduit going to the niche. This is the essence of my question. There is only one terminal in most deck boxes that is capable of terminating a #8 wire. The other issue is if I am using three conduits in a deck box (feed in, feed out and feed to niche) there is no entry available for the "bonding wire".
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#89909 - 10/24/04 08:55 AM Re: Swimming Pool Question
gfretwell Offline

Member

Registered: 07/20/04
Posts: 9045
Loc: Estero,Fl,usa
I figured out that too (no place for 2 #8s)
I stubbed up a #8 solid where my J boxes are but ended up not using it. You have a #12 and a #8 going to the bonded niche anyway (for each light). I am not sure what a 3d wire would do.
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#89910 - 10/24/04 09:38 AM Re: Swimming Pool Question
George Little Offline
Member

Registered: 01/18/04
Posts: 1492
Loc: Michigan USA
I have taken the stand that if the deck box is more than 5 feet from the water's edge it is not required to be bonded to the bonding grid. Based on 680.26(B) Please correct me if I'm wrong
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#89911 - 10/24/04 09:46 AM Re: Swimming Pool Question
Ryan_J Offline
Moderator

Registered: 08/19/03
Posts: 1355
Loc: West Jordan, Utah, USA
George: I agree. If the box is within 5', it must be bonded to the grid and have an EGC, if it is more than 5', only an EGC is required.
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#89912 - 10/24/04 02:47 PM Re: Swimming Pool Question
harold endean Offline
Member

Registered: 02/16/02
Posts: 2248
Loc: Boonton, NJ
Greg,

I agree with you, the deck box already has a # 8 wire bonding the box to the pool grid, so another bonding wire should not be required.

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#89913 - 10/24/04 03:03 PM Re: Swimming Pool Question
PCBelarge Offline
Member

Registered: 06/08/03
Posts: 657
Loc: Dobbs Ferry, NY, USA
Remember that 680.23(B)(2)(b) is in reference to using a nonmetallic raceway, and they are discussing using the 8 AWG as an equipment grounding conductor - very important.

As far as bonding the Deck Box, the bonding conductor (if the box is within 5 feet) is not required to be installed inside the raceway.
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#89914 - 10/24/04 09:03 PM Re: Swimming Pool Question
gfretwell Offline

Member

Registered: 07/20/04
Posts: 9045
Loc: Estero,Fl,usa
Do you folks ever see any metal? Around here the light niche and the J box are going to be plastic and the only metal is the terminals. In the niche that 2" strip of metal is where the lamp bolt, bonding lug and grounding lug fasten. The raceway is PVC. The "deck" box is sticking up on the PVC next to the pump. If you are lucky they will stick an old board in the ground to strap it to.
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Greg Fretwell

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#89915 - 10/25/04 04:04 PM Re: Swimming Pool Question
George Little Offline
Member

Registered: 01/18/04
Posts: 1492
Loc: Michigan USA
Fretwell- We still see metal niches in Michigan and metal deck boxes with either metal or plastic covers. Wish someone would come up with a good way to secure deck boxes that have PVC conduits run to them. The other thing we are starting to see around here is fiber optic ligthting and this doesn't typically have any metal parts that need bonding.
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George Little

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