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#89809 - 10/20/04 04:05 AM Outlet?
George Little Offline
Member
Registered: 01/18/04
Posts: 1492
Loc: Michigan USA
The definition of an "outlet" in the code is somewhat controversial IMHO. There are those who would say a receptacle or a lighting fixture box are outlets. Others will say any box that contains a neutral is considered an outlet. So, one could say a switch located in a bedroom that controls a flood light outside the house is an outlet and requires AFCI. What say you?
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George Little
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#89810 - 10/20/04 04:08 AM Re: Outlet?
resqcapt19 Offline
Member
Registered: 11/10/00
Posts: 2209
Loc: IL
In my opinion, it is not an outlet unless it directly supplies some type of equipment. The switch is not an outlet.
Don
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#89811 - 10/20/04 04:24 AM Re: Outlet?
shortcircuit Offline
Member
Registered: 06/27/04
Posts: 608
Loc: massachusetts
An outlet is something that uses power.A switch only controls the power.So I would say that the switch that controls a flood light outside of a bedroom need not be AFCI protected.

shortcircuit
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#89812 - 10/20/04 05:02 AM Re: Outlet?
Yoopersup Offline
Member
Registered: 03/04/03
Posts: 826
Loc: Michigan
Definations answers your Question. Both switch and oulet are in there. Out (A point on the wiring System at which current is taken to supply utilization equipment.)A switch is not utilization equipment.
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#89813 - 10/20/04 10:34 AM Re: Outlet?
ElectricAL Offline
Member
Registered: 10/10/01
Posts: 615
Loc: Minneapolis, MN USA
In my opinion, there are four key definitions in Article 100 that interlock into a whole, with respect to your question, George.
  • Premises Wiring (System) - branch circuit in the walls
  • Controller - light switch
  • Outlet
  • Utilization Equipment - flood light
We are told that the current path internal to a controller is not part of the Premises Wiring. Current has to be taken from the Premises Wiring for it to flow in the Controller.

When the controller allows an equipment (flood light) to utilize energy, the current for the utilization equipment must be taken from the premises wiring system, routed through the controller, returned to the premises wiring system and be taken again at the flood light.

In my opinion, a light switch is installed at an outlet.
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Al Hildenbrand
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#89814 - 10/20/04 11:05 AM Re: Outlet?
resqcapt19 Offline
Member
Registered: 11/10/00
Posts: 2209
Loc: IL
Al,
Quote:
We are told that the current path internal to a controller is not part of the Premises Wiring. Current has to be taken from the Premises Wiring for it to flow in the Controller.

The controller (switch) does not use the current and is not ultilization equipment, therefore it is not installed at an outlet.
Don
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Don(resqcapt19)
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#89815 - 10/20/04 11:33 AM Re: Outlet?
ElectricAL Offline
Member
Registered: 10/10/01
Posts: 615
Loc: Minneapolis, MN USA
Don,
Quote:
resqcapt19 wrote: In my opinion, it is not an outlet unless it directly supplies some type of equipment.
The NEC does not use the language directly supplies.

The current only has to be taken from the wiring system and be current that is to supply utilization equipment. I see nothing in the definition of Outlet that limits "A" point to being "The only" point.
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Al Hildenbrand
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#89816 - 10/20/04 01:41 PM Re: Outlet?
resqcapt19 Offline
Member
Registered: 11/10/00
Posts: 2209
Loc: IL
Al,
You read it your way and I'll read it mine. I will never change my opinion on this issue unless the NFPA issues a formal interpretation saying that I am wrong. We spent 11 pages on this issue on Mike Holt's forum and it was not resolved.
Don
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Don(resqcapt19)
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#89817 - 10/20/04 02:24 PM Re: Outlet?
ElectricAL Offline
Member
Registered: 10/10/01
Posts: 615
Loc: Minneapolis, MN USA
Yup.

Don, we have two different readings.

I join you, George Little, in asking, "What say you?" to the rest of the community.

The meaning of Outlet is the heart of the question, seems to me, not whether a switch utilizes energy.
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Al Hildenbrand
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#89818 - 10/20/04 02:33 PM Re: Outlet?
Ryan_J Offline
Moderator
Registered: 08/19/03
Posts: 1355
Loc: West Jordan, Utah, USA
I share Don's opinion, personally.
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Ryan Jackson,
Salt Lake City
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