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#89358 - 09/11/04 12:16 AM Gas bond?'s
e57 Offline
Member

Registered: 05/27/03
Posts: 2837
Loc: S.F.,CA USA
Recently the area I work in (SF,CA) changed it's gas bonding rules. And wondering if anywhere else does it our new way?

Old way: Made Electrode/Rod and Water to Main Panel or Meter/Main combo. Bond hot, cold and gas at water heater.

New way: Made Electrode/Rod and Water to Main Panel or Meter/Main combo. Gas next nipple past gas meter to Main Panel or Meter/Main combo, or to any electrode, but not between electrodes. Bond hot and cold at water heater.

Anywhere else doing this?
_________________________
Mark Heller
"Well - I oughta....." -Jackie Gleason

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#89359 - 09/11/04 06:03 AM Re: Gas bond?'s
CharlieE Offline
Member

Registered: 04/23/04
Posts: 204
Loc: Indianapolis
I am sorry, maybe I am a bit dense this morning but I didn't understand you "new way" so let me address the bonding of the gas piping.

The gas piping is not required to be bonded unless it is expected that it may become energized. In that case, the circuit that may energize the pipe is where the bonding conductor is to be taken from. The bonding of the gas appliance is considered to be sufficient for the bonding of the gas pipe that feeds that appliance without any additional bonding.

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Charlie Eldridge, Indianapolis, Utility Power Guy
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Charlie Eldridge, Indianapolis Utility Power Guy

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#89360 - 09/11/04 10:51 AM Re: Gas bond?'s
trekkie76 Offline
Member

Registered: 06/19/04
Posts: 219
Loc: baileyville, maine, usa
250-104(B) also says you can bond the gas piping to the service equipment, the grounded conductor at the service,the GEC, as well as the EGC of the circuit likely to energize. my question is how would you determine which circuit may rub through or accidentally come in contact with the gas pipes? wouldn't a CYA move be to just bond the the service?

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#89361 - 09/11/04 10:59 AM Re: Gas bond?'s
iwire Offline
Moderator

Registered: 01/05/03
Posts: 4343
Loc: North Attleboro, MA USA
Why bond what is not likely to be energized?
_________________________
Bob Badger
Construction & Maintenance Electrician
Massachusetts

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#89362 - 09/11/04 11:48 AM Re: Gas bond?'s
trekkie76 Offline
Member

Registered: 06/19/04
Posts: 219
Loc: baileyville, maine, usa
I was just in a basement last week that had an old piece of BX close to touching the gas pipes, the BX wasn't grounded, and somewhere in its length the hot had come in contact with the armor. WELL, let me tell ya, touched the armor and the sparks flew! The cable touched the pipe, grounded out, opened the OCPD. Point is, this installation was put in a LONG time ago, and at the time, there might not have been any reason to think there was going to be a short against the gas pipes. How do you determine if it will never be energized?

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#89363 - 09/11/04 01:26 PM Re: Gas bond?'s
e57 Offline
Member

Registered: 05/27/03
Posts: 2837
Loc: S.F.,CA USA
Here it is inspectable during every service alteration. Fail, for non-compliance of it. Always has been in my area of California, at least. The way it has been read, is that it is always been "likely to become energized".

It nice to know that iterpretation is a little different everywhere you go.

 Quote:
250.104(B) Other Metal Piping. Where installed in or attached to a building or structure, metal piping system(s), including gas piping, that may become energized shall be bonded to the service equipment enclosure, the grounded conductor at the service, the grounding electrode conductor where of sufficient size, or to the one or more grounding electrodes used. The bonding jumper(s) shall be sized in accordance with 250.122 using the rating of the circuit that may energize the piping system(s). The equipment grounding conductor for the circuit that may energize the piping shall be permitted to serve as the bonding means. The points of attachment of the bonding jumper(s) shall be accessible.
FPN:Bonding all piping and metal air ducts within the premises will provide additional safety.
Commentary: Section 250.104(B) was revised for the 2002 Code to state that gas piping is treated exactly the same as all "other metal piping" systems within a building.
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Mark Heller
"Well - I oughta....." -Jackie Gleason

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#89364 - 09/11/04 01:52 PM Re: Gas bond?'s
e57 Offline
Member

Registered: 05/27/03
Posts: 2837
Loc: S.F.,CA USA
double post


[This message has been edited by e57 (edited 09-11-2004).]
_________________________
Mark Heller
"Well - I oughta....." -Jackie Gleason

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#89365 - 09/11/04 02:17 PM Re: Gas bond?'s
iwire Offline
Moderator

Registered: 01/05/03
Posts: 4343
Loc: North Attleboro, MA USA
How we determine it here is simple, if it is not connected to an electric appliance it is not likely to be energized.

It could be be energized but it is not likely.

Each area has their own way and here we do not bond gas pipes except by the EGC of equipment connected to it.

If the service neutral opens do you really want the gas piping at an elevated voltage, subjecting gas workers to a shock?

Another question:

Why do you suppose the NEC even put the words "may become energized" in this section if they meant all metal piping systems must always be bonded?

To each their own.

Bob



[This message has been edited by iwire (edited 09-11-2004).]
_________________________
Bob Badger
Construction & Maintenance Electrician
Massachusetts

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#89366 - 09/11/04 02:56 PM Re: Gas bond?'s
e57 Offline
Member

Registered: 05/27/03
Posts: 2837
Loc: S.F.,CA USA
Personally, I find it a real pain in the end. As now we have to find a path to the otherside of a building to do it sometimes. But would fail inspections for it otherwise. (Although California, and SF, ignore this part: "The equipment grounding conductor for the circuit that may energize the piping shall be permitted to serve as the bonding means.")
_________________________
Mark Heller
"Well - I oughta....." -Jackie Gleason

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#89367 - 09/11/04 04:06 PM Re: Gas bond?'s
caselec Offline
Member

Registered: 04/14/02
Posts: 557
Loc: San Jose, CA
In California we are using the 2001 CEC which is based on the 1999 NEC. 250-104(b) says that the interior metal gas piping must be bonded to the grounding electrode system. It doesn’t say anything about likely to become energized.

For many years every jurisdiction I have worked in except San Jose has required a bonding jumper between the hot, cold and gas pipes at the water heater. If you tell the inspector that the NEC permits the EGC of the appliances likely to energize the piping to serve as the bonding jumper he or she will tell you they still want the jumper at the heater. I have spent too much time arguing with inspectors over this issue and have decided to install the jumper for them. Now that we are on the 99 NEC I don’t have much of an argument but since I haven’t run across any inspectors that will not permit this jumper to be at the water heater I keep my mouth shut. Mark has finally run across some inspectors that realized what the 99 NEC requires.

Curt
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Curt Swartz

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