ECN Electrical Forum - Discussion Forums for Electricians, Inspectors and Related Professionals

ECN Shout Chat
Top Posters(30 Days)
Admin 16
Recent Posts
ESA Arc flash course
by TheShockDoctors. 03/24/17 10:15 AM
fuse rejectors
by HotLine1. 03/24/17 07:53 AM
Another Forum Update
by Admin. 03/22/17 03:04 PM
Dining room plugs
by watersparkfalls. 03/21/17 10:31 PM
TRUE POWER
by jraef. 03/21/17 09:13 PM
New in the Gallery:
SE cable question
Popular Topics(Views)
231,394 Are you busy
166,113 Re: Forum
160,572 Need opinion
Who's Online Now
0 registered members (), 55 guests, and 14 spiders.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Rate This Thread
#88876 - 08/03/04 01:57 PM Cooktop and hood fan  
Edward  Offline
Member
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 308
California
Can a 120V exhaust hood be hardwired to the same circuit as the electric cook top?

Please give NEC

Thank you
Edward


Thanks
Edward

2017 / 2014 NEC & Related Books and Study Guides

#88877 - 08/03/04 02:05 PM Re: Cooktop and hood fan  
gfretwell  Offline


Member
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 9,057
Estero,Fl,usa
Unless you have a 1hp motor in that hood or supplimental O/C protection, 430.52 will do it. I suppose the manufacturer's instructions will enter into it too. 110.3(B)


Greg Fretwell

#88878 - 08/03/04 08:17 PM Re: Cooktop and hood fan  
Electricmanscott  Offline
Member
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 1,457
Holden, MA USA
I can't think of anything that would allow you to do this.


#88879 - 08/04/04 09:56 PM Re: Cooktop and hood fan  
Edward  Offline
Member
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 308
California
section 210-19(C) exc.1.
" Tap conductors supplying electric ranges,wall mounted ovens and counter mounted electric cooking units from a 50Ampere branch circuit shall have an ampere not less than 20 and shall be sufficient for the load to be served. The tap shall not be longer than necessary for servicing the appliance"

What is the difference (besides the obvious Exhaust hood is not a cooking unit)between a counter top cooking unit and an exhaust hood if the tap that i am using has a 20Amp capacity(12AWG)?

Edward
Thanks


Thanks
Edward

#88880 - 08/04/04 10:40 PM Re: Cooktop and hood fan  
shortcircuit  Offline
Member
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 608
massachusetts
It is not a "Cooking Unit" a "Range" or a "Wall mounted Oven"


#88881 - 08/05/04 02:21 AM Re: Cooktop and hood fan  
Edward  Offline
Member
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 308
California
Shortcircuit,
I know that and i have clearly stated my understanding that there is a differnce between a cooking unit and an exhaust fan.
My question is why a 20 Amp tap is permitted for a cooking unit with an OCPD of 40-50 Amp but you say it is not permitted for an exhaust fan.

Please explain WHY NOT? What is the reason behind it.

Edward


Thanks
Edward

#88882 - 08/05/04 06:25 AM Re: Cooktop and hood fan  
shortcircuit  Offline
Member
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 608
massachusetts
Edward...I'm not sure WHY NOT except that 210.19(C)prohibits it indirectly. But I will research it some more. Most of the fancy hoods that we have installed, the directions state that a seperate circuit is needed and limit the overcurrent protection to a 15 or 20 amp breaker...what type of hood fan are you installing?

Boy u were up late last nite:< )


#88883 - 08/05/04 06:56 AM Re: Cooktop and hood fan  
iwire  Offline
Moderator
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 4,391
North Attleboro, MA USA
Edward,

Quote
Please explain WHY NOT?


Because they said so!

[Linked Image]

Sorry, [Linked Image]

I will go out on a limb here and just give a wild guess that when a cook top is designed it is done so with the knowledge that it may be tapped from a 50 amp circuit per the NEC. To that end the wiring inside the cook top is heavy enough to trip a 50 amp overcurrent protective device in the event of a short circuit or ground fault. Overload is not possible as the connected load will never increase.

I would bet that there are no conductors used in cook tops smaller than 14 AWG.

Take a look at the allowable ampacities for cords and fixture wires in 240.5(B)(1) & (2). I realize that those sections are not directly applicable but I believe they are a good indication of what size conductor the NFPA believes can safely trip a 50 amp overcurrent protective device.

Now think of the typical 120 V exhaust hood, the conductors inside are likely to be 18 AWG. Going back to 240.5(B)(1) & (2) it seems the NFPA believes 18 AWG should be on a 20 amp overcurrent protective device max.

Even though we do not think about it much, the overcurrent protection we provide is also the overcurrent protection for the utilization equipment.

IMO this is one of the reasons you can not protect a 20 amp outlet with more than a 20 amp overcurrent device or in the case of a electric water heater you can not have overcurrent in excess of 150% the nameplate current.

All of this goes hand in hand with the UL listing of the equipment.

Take all this for what it is worth, it is just my opinion. [Linked Image]

Bob

[This message has been edited by iwire (edited 08-05-2004).]


Bob Badger
Construction & Maintenance Electrician
Massachusetts

#88884 - 08/05/04 02:02 PM Re: Cooktop and hood fan  
Edward  Offline
Member
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 308
California
Thank you for all your input. I am not trying to argue rather understand the reason behind it. Please allow me to explain my situation.
What homeowner had was a combo cooking,hood unit of somesort. Where the 240V provides power to all units(cooking unit and the hood) Now they have two separate unit cooktop and a hood. and all we we at that location is a 240V/40A.
I though about getting power from an near by counter receptacle but i can not because the backsplash is granit.

So what would you suggest i do?

Thank you
Edward


Thanks
Edward

#88885 - 08/05/04 02:24 PM Re: Cooktop and hood fan  
Bill Addiss  Offline
Member
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 3,875
NY, USA
Quote
I though about getting power from an near by counter receptacle
Edward,

That wouldn't be right either. Find an outlet on a general lighting circuit.

Bill



Member Spotlight
HotLine1
HotLine1
Brick, NJ USA
Posts: 6,799
Joined: April 2002
Show All Member Profiles 
Featured:

2017 NEC and Related
2017 NEC
Now Available!

Shout Box
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.6.0
Page Time: 0.015s Queries: 14 (0.003s) Memory: 0.8082 MB (Peak: 0.9812 MB) Zlib enabled. Server Time: 2017-03-25 07:51:56 UTC