ECN Electrical Forum - Discussion Forums for Electricians, Inspectors and Related Professionals

Topic Options
Rate This Topic
#88824 - 08/02/04 09:09 AM appliance garage
Creighton Offline
Member
Registered: 01/06/02
Posts: 59
Loc: Hayward, CA
210.52(C)(5). How do you space the receptacles on either side of an appliance garage? (The receptacle in the garage does not count as one of the required kitchen counter receptacles)
Creighton
Top
2017 / 2014 NEC & Related Books and Study Guides
#88825 - 08/02/04 10:22 AM Re: appliance garage
CharlieE Offline
Member
Registered: 04/23/04
Posts: 200
Loc: Indianapolis
Hello Creighton (S. I assume). IMHO, the appliance garage is a skipped space that is handled the same as a sink or range top since appliances would be pulled from the garage to make use of them. That makes the space in front of the garage dedicated to the garage. Therefore, a small appliance branch circuit receptacle must be within 2 feet of the edge of the garage on either side.

Charlie Eldridge, Utility Power Guy
_________________________
Charlie Eldridge, Indianapolis Utility Power Guy
Top
#88826 - 08/02/04 11:42 AM Re: appliance garage
Electricmanscott Offline
Member
Registered: 01/12/02
Posts: 1457
Loc: Holden, MA USA
I agree with Charlie. To take it further, (Threadjack not intended) if you do install a receptacle inside the garage is gfci protection required? There are those who say since it is not counted as a required counter use receptacle gfci not required. I say gfci is required because the receptacle usually serves an appliance that is used on the counter.
Top
#88827 - 08/02/04 02:34 PM Re: appliance garage
Creighton Offline
Member
Registered: 01/06/02
Posts: 59
Loc: Hayward, CA
Hi, Charlie - Yes, it's me. Nice to see your contributions to this forum. I like your common sense answer, but Panel 2 in the 2004 ROP, Pg. 304.proposal 2-220, says "The panel does not agree that appliance garages generally do not split the countertops into separate spaces."
Using your method, the two receptacles each side of the ag are 4 ft. + the width of the ag apart. As the receptacle inside the ag cannot be counted as one of the required receptacles, we are left with a dilemma.
As we know, it is hard to say what you mean and have it mean the same thing to the next guy.
Best regards, Creighton.
Top
#88828 - 08/02/04 07:18 PM Re: appliance garage
CharlieE Offline
Member
Registered: 04/23/04
Posts: 200
Loc: Indianapolis
Great to hear from you, Creighton. I have not read the panel statement. However, IMO, the panel statement is an official interpretation of the NEC. In other words, I disagree with the panel but I feel like the intent of the Code is to count the area in front of the garages.

My question is what do you do is the garage is over four feet wide (I have never seen one that wide)? Since you can't count the receptacles in the garage, are you required to put in tombstones?

Charlie Eldridge, Indianapolis, Utility Power Guy

I have figured out how to do my signature.
_________________________
Charlie Eldridge, Indianapolis Utility Power Guy
Top
#88829 - 08/03/04 06:46 AM Re: appliance garage
ElectricAL Offline
Member
Registered: 10/10/01
Posts: 597
Loc: Minneapolis, MN USA
A not uncommon placement of the garage is in the corner of the room. Since the spacing of the counter receptacles is measured along the backsplash, a 2' x 2' garage will push the counter outlet on either side of the garage to more than 4' apart.

In effect this garage is 4' wide.
_________________________
Al Hildenbrand
Top
#88830 - 08/04/04 12:33 PM Re: appliance garage
ElectricAL Offline
Member
Registered: 10/10/01
Posts: 597
Loc: Minneapolis, MN USA
Creighton,

Your question has stuck with me over the last couple days. Appliance garages come in a large number of variations.

Following the lead from Panel 2 in the 2004 ROP, Pg. 304.proposal 2-220, I submit that the question is about whether there is counter outside of the garage, and how that counter is served by counter receptacles.

Since the receptacles inside the appliance garage are, by 210.52(C)(5), not readily accessible, this draws my attention to the garage floor as being part of a dedicated space and is not wall counter.

Depending on the physical configuration of the garage, is there counter outside the garage, and, if so, is it 12" wide or wider.

As currently worded, the surface, along which the measurement is done for the spacing of receptacles, seems to be the outside face of the garage.

The cutting in of receptacle outlets in either (or both) end panel(s) of the garage seems to be the required solution at present.

[This message has been edited by ElectricAL (edited 08-04-2004).]
_________________________
Al Hildenbrand
Top

Member Spotlight
Member Since: 02/23/13
Posts: 204
New in the Gallery:
SE cable question
Featured:

2017 NEC and Related
2017 NEC
Now Available!

Shout Box


Who's Online
0 registered (), 51 Guests and 9 Spiders online.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
 
New in the Gallery:
SE cable question
 
Top Posters (30 Days)
Admin 47
HotLine1 43
gfretwell 19
Ruben Rocha 12
Trumpy 9
 
Newest Members
Scotto, Freecrowder, clee512, Jdscott2005, FAIZAN

ECN Electrical Forums - sponsored by Electrical Contractor Network - Electrical and Code Related Discussion for Electrical Contractors, Electricians, Inspectors, Instructors, Engineers and other related Professionals