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#88594 - 06/28/04 05:58 PM cuzi lights
shortcircuit Offline
Member

Registered: 06/27/04
Posts: 608
Loc: massachusetts
Are wall sconces acceptable on the wall beside a hydromassage tub in a dwelling within the restricted zone listed in 410.4(D) and if so are they required to be GFCI protected???

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#88595 - 06/29/04 07:10 AM Re: cuzi lights
earlydean Offline
Member

Registered: 12/22/03
Posts: 749
Loc: Griswold, CT, USA
410.4(D) pertains to hanging, cord connected or pendant fixtures. Sconces are none of these. Sconces are allowed above or to the side of bathtubs if approved for the location (wet?).
Hydromassage bathtubs are in 680.70, there are no additional restrictions on wall or ceiling fixtures above that for an ordinary bathtub. Sconces are allowed if approved for the location (i.e. wet location if necessary).

I think the confusion stems from the rules on hot-tubs. Article 680.43(B) covers fixtures over or around hot-tubs: Above 7' 6" with GFCI, or 12' without.
Recessed and covered wet location fixtures are allowed with GFCI below. Sconces (unless of wet-location construction and GFCI protected) are not allowed within 5 feet of a hot-tub unless they are above 7' 6" with GFCI protection or 12' without.
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Earl

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#88596 - 06/29/04 04:42 PM Re: cuzi lights
GTE Offline
Member

Registered: 03/26/03
Posts: 48
Loc: Bridgehampton, N.Y. USA
Is a wall scone in a tub area (no shower) a wet location?

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#88597 - 06/29/04 04:50 PM Re: cuzi lights
GTE Offline
Member

Registered: 03/26/03
Posts: 48
Loc: Bridgehampton, N.Y. USA
Do wall sconces in a tub area have to be approved for damp location?

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#88598 - 06/29/04 05:42 PM Re: cuzi lights
shortcircuit Offline
Member

Registered: 06/27/04
Posts: 608
Loc: massachusetts
thanx for the input earlydean...so wall sconces are allowed within the restricted zone as defined in 410.4(D)and without GFCI protection as I interpret the code.I just don't see the difference in the danger of having a wall sconce next to a hydromassage tub or next to a hot tub...both use electric pumps to circulate water and some of these hydromassage tubs come with heaters and lights too,maybe someone can explain the difference???I know one is drained after use,but while the hydromassage tub is filled it is similar to a hot tub.

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#88599 - 06/30/04 07:48 AM Re: cuzi lights
earlydean Offline
Member

Registered: 12/22/03
Posts: 749
Loc: Griswold, CT, USA
A shower is a wet location, as it is likely to get wet in there! A bathtub without a shower is not a wet location, as water is not normally splashed about (too much).
A hot-tub has hot water in it ALL the time, and therefore usually will have steam rising above it which creates a condensation problem for anything in the vicinity (within 5 feet).

Earl
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#88600 - 06/30/04 06:09 PM Re: cuzi lights
shortcircuit Offline
Member

Registered: 06/27/04
Posts: 608
Loc: massachusetts
OK but a hydromassage tub also creates a lot of steam from the hot water in the tub...which is similar to a hot tub when in use...so why not have the same codes that apply to a hot tub apply to a hydromassage tub?The code is a minimum standard and any lighting (permitted) that I install over or beside the tub within the zone defined by 410.4(D)will be GFCI protected for the safety of the people (and children) that use (and splash) in that cuzi tub that I wire:< )

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#88601 - 07/01/04 06:32 AM Re: cuzi lights
earlydean Offline
Member

Registered: 12/22/03
Posts: 749
Loc: Griswold, CT, USA
Someone somewhere in the NFPA 70 process felt that a hydromassage bathtub would be drained for 99% of the time and would therefore be allowed to dry out. The hot-tub is wet all the time and could not dry out, therefore would need wet location covers. Or so I figure.
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Earl

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#88602 - 07/01/04 02:10 PM Re: cuzi lights
shortcircuit Offline
Member

Registered: 06/27/04
Posts: 608
Loc: massachusetts
thanx for your insight earlydean...Peter

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