The Electrical Contractor Network

ECN Electrical Forum
Discussion Forums for Electricians, Inspectors and Related Professionals

Books, Tools and Test Equipment for Electrical and Construction Trades

Register Now!

Register Now!

We want your input!

Featured:
   

2017 NEC and Related
2017 NEC
Now Available!

   
Recent Posts
Industrail Control Panel bonding per 409.108
by HotLine1
Today at 01:42 PM
Calling all Non-US members!! (Non-US only)
by aussie240
12/07/16 02:39 AM
Photo Upload Tutorial
by DanK
12/06/16 11:35 PM
Sprinklered equipment 26-008
by bigpapa
12/02/16 04:24 PM
On Delay Relay with Auto Reset
by Potseal
12/01/16 09:59 AM
New in the Gallery:
12.5A through 0.75mm˛ flex (just out of curiosity)
Shout Box

Top Posters (30 Days)
gfretwell 13
HotLine1 10
Texas_Ranger 8
sparkyinak 8
Potseal 6
Who's Online
2 registered (Webmaster, LongRunner), 227 Guests and 5 Spiders online.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Topic Options
Rate This Topic
#88441 - 06/02/04 06:09 AM A safety message by a Utility in nthe MidWest
Joe Tedesco Offline
Member

Registered: 10/07/00
Posts: 3325
Loc: Boston, Massachusetts USA
_________________________
Joe Tedesco, NEC Consultant

Top
2014 / 2011 NEC & Related Books and Study Guides
#88442 - 06/02/04 12:47 PM Re: A safety message by a Utility in nthe MidWest
Fred Offline
Member

Registered: 04/30/01
Posts: 461
Loc: Straughn, IN 47387
Joe, What's your point?

Top
#88443 - 06/02/04 05:48 PM Re: A safety message by a Utility in nthe MidWest
Joe Tedesco Offline
Member

Registered: 10/07/00
Posts: 3325
Loc: Boston, Massachusetts USA
The company Xcel Energy was kind enough to put this billboard up that sends a message of safety!

The message is clear, and will put some fear in the minds of those who may be considering painting their home like this person.

I have an actual video showing a painter who made contact with the service entrance conductors at the drip loop and fell off the ladder.



[This message has been edited by Joe Tedesco (edited 06-02-2004).]
_________________________
Joe Tedesco, NEC Consultant

Top
#88444 - 06/02/04 08:11 PM Re: A safety message by a Utility in nthe MidWest
wa2ise Offline
Member

Registered: 11/29/02
Posts: 771
Loc: Oradell NJ USA
No problem at my house, the service entrance is underground. Comes into the basement immediately into the meter, and about 6 inches below the meter can is the service equipment. A pair of 100 amp fuses. Then that feeds a heavy BX style 3 wire #2 AWG cable that runs to a panel in the middle of the house.

Even though it's a subpanel, the ground bond screw connects the neutral to the grounding. I would guess that the BX shield would not take a 100 amp fault current, and would burn the house if it did. House was built in the 1950's.

Top
#88445 - 06/03/04 08:40 AM Re: A safety message by a Utility in nthe MidWest
Mean Gene Offline
Member

Registered: 10/20/03
Posts: 137
Loc: Ohio, USA
 Quote:
I have an actual video showing a painter who made contact with the service entrance conductors at the drip loop and fell off the ladder.


Joe, can you post a link to it here??

I can think of several people I would like to show that to.

Top
#88446 - 06/03/04 09:09 AM Re: A safety message by a Utility in nthe MidWest
Joe Tedesco Offline
Member

Registered: 10/07/00
Posts: 3325
Loc: Boston, Massachusetts USA
Mean Gene:

The story about the painter falling off the ladder is on a video purchased from Dupont in Virginia, I will see if I can do a short clip on my digital camera so it can be posted for you.

The name of the video is: "Take Electricity Seriously" and it is probably one of the best because they are not actors!

The stories are all true, and show how a person was electrocuted in his flooded basement, the guy touching the electrical vacuum cleaner while cleaning his car ... this video also shows a medic who made contact with HV lines.

wa2ise:

"the ground bond screw connects the neutral to the grounding"

Not good and you will hear from others here too, maybe they can add to this or you can see the commentary in the NECH in 408.20 and 21??
_________________________
Joe Tedesco, NEC Consultant

Top
#88447 - 06/03/04 02:40 PM Re: A safety message by a Utility in nthe MidWest
Roger Offline
Member

Registered: 05/18/02
Posts: 1779
Loc: N.C.
Joe, there was a roofer killed in Asheville five or six years ago when he came into contact with a service drop.

This was a commercial building and I don't recall the details so I can't remember the voltage, but in any case this warning would have saved him if he would have adhered to it.

Wa2ise, I would separate these conductors, and even though there may be some who would say the Armour may not clear a fault of 100 amps, (put a megger at 500 or 1000v between the points for a test) I would feel better about this than the possibility of the Armour carrying the neutral load.

Personally, I'd try to run an external EGC between the panels. (yea, yea, yea, I know

Roger




[This message has been edited by Roger (edited 06-03-2004).]

Top
#88448 - 06/06/04 06:52 PM Re: A safety message by a Utility in nthe MidWest
Joe Tedesco Offline
Member

Registered: 10/07/00
Posts: 3325
Loc: Boston, Massachusetts USA
Roger:

This rule allows the installation you described. It was used when there were no EGC's, so it may not be acceptable.

For you though, Yes, Yes, Yes! Do it!

250.134(B) With Circuit Conductors. By an equipment grounding conductor contained within the same raceway, cable, or otherwise run with the circuit conductors.
_________________________
Joe Tedesco, NEC Consultant

Top



ECN Electrical Forums - sponsored by Electrical Contractor Network - Electrical and Code Related Discussion for Electrical Contractors, Electricians, Inspectors, Instructors, Engineers and other related Professionals