The Electrical Contractor Network

ECN Electrical Forum
Discussion Forums for Electricians, Inspectors and Related Professionals

Books, Tools and Test Equipment for Electrical and Construction Trades

Register Now!

Register Now!

We want your input!

Featured:
   

2017 NEC and Related
2017 NEC
Now Available!

   
Recent Posts
Safety at heights?
by Trumpy
Today at 05:25 AM
Old Bath Fan
by gfretwell
Today at 01:38 AM
Search Function
by Webmaster
Yesterday at 11:13 PM
Forum Software Upgrade coming soon...
by Webmaster
Yesterday at 09:17 PM
ESA Arc flash course
by frank
Yesterday at 04:25 PM
New in the Gallery:
Desk-mounted "power-board"
Top Posters (30 Days)
Webmaster 30
HotLine1 21
Ruben Rocha 16
gfretwell 13
Trumpy 13
Who's Online
1 registered (electure), 0 Guests and 186 Spiders online.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Page 1 of 3 1 2 3 >
Topic Options
Rate This Topic
#88221 - 05/23/04 11:54 AM Number of Services / Disconnects
iwire Offline
Moderator

Registered: 01/05/03
Posts: 4343
Loc: North Attleboro, MA USA
Is this service correct?





No mains at meter, no mains at panels, 24 throws of the hand to kill the whole building.


[This message has been edited by iwire (edited 05-23-2004).]
_________________________
Bob Badger
Construction & Maintenance Electrician
Massachusetts

Top
2017 / 2014 NEC & Related Books and Study Guides
#88222 - 05/23/04 12:25 PM Re: Number of Services / Disconnects
txsparky Offline
Member

Registered: 05/25/01
Posts: 578
Loc: Magnolia,.Texas U.S.A.
Not around here!
_________________________
Donnie

Top
#88223 - 05/23/04 12:30 PM Re: Number of Services / Disconnects
koz-man Offline
Member

Registered: 01/21/04
Posts: 11
Loc: Scranton Pa, USA
Violation...Art 230.70

Frank

Top
#88224 - 05/23/04 12:33 PM Re: Number of Services / Disconnects
CTwireman Offline
Member

Registered: 02/07/02
Posts: 839
Loc: Connecticut, USA
Is this another trick question Bob?

I say yes, it is correct, as long as the panels contain less than 6 breakers each.

More than that, and the panels need to be changed to main breakers. With all those new wires hanging there, that looks like what you are going to do.

Peter
_________________________
Peter

Top
#88225 - 05/23/04 01:12 PM Re: Number of Services / Disconnects
Roger Offline
Member

Registered: 05/18/02
Posts: 1779
Loc: N.C.
It is Legal. Frank look at 230.71 and take note of the wording "six sets of circuit breakers"

Roger

Top
#88226 - 05/23/04 01:36 PM Re: Number of Services / Disconnects
caselec Offline
Member

Registered: 04/14/02
Posts: 557
Loc: San Jose, CA
I realize that the discussion is about the number of service disconnects but……..
What size are the circuit breakers in the panels? It looks like most of them are single pole so these would be lighting and appliance panels 408.14(B). If so they wouldn’t comply with 408.16(A). Exception 2 does permit this for existing installations but these services don’t look very old.
_________________________
Curt Swartz

Top
#88227 - 05/23/04 01:37 PM Re: Number of Services / Disconnects
koz-man Offline
Member

Registered: 01/21/04
Posts: 11
Loc: Scranton Pa, USA
So you'll telling me that each panel doesn't need a main disconnecting means. I'm finding this very hard to accept.

What about Art. 230.79 (D) All other installations (multi-family) shall have a service disconnecting means rating of not less than 60 amperes.

Frank

Top
#88228 - 05/23/04 01:59 PM Re: Number of Services / Disconnects
DougW Offline
Member

Registered: 06/08/03
Posts: 1083
Loc: North Chicago, IL
I second the motion...

[ghettoEC] WHERE MY MAINS AT!!!! YOU DOWN WITH OCP? YOU GO, EC![/ghettoEC]

Top
#88229 - 05/23/04 02:42 PM Re: Number of Services / Disconnects
BPHgravity Offline
Member

Registered: 04/08/03
Posts: 141
Loc: Port Charlotte, Florida
I don't see how the term "sets" applies to this example. It's been my understanding that the term "sets" was added to allow multiple single pole brekers to be handle tied into one switch. (ROP 4-117, 4-118 and ROC 4-69)

As far as the original question goes, I don't see how this installation is permitted. I only see one service. There may be 4 service entrance conductors supplying 4 separate service enclosures, but I don't think the additional service entrances meet any of the exceptions to section 230.40 permitted by 230.71(A). Exception #2 could be used for the the multiple sets of service entrances, but is not allowed to be used for the purposes of 230.71(A) requirments. I feel its a violation unless someone can show otherwise.
_________________________
Bryan P. Holland, ECO.
Secretary - IAEI Florida Chapter

Top
#88230 - 05/23/04 02:46 PM Re: Number of Services / Disconnects
caselec Offline
Member

Registered: 04/14/02
Posts: 557
Loc: San Jose, CA
Frank,

230.71 permits more than one service disconnect. 230.80 permits the combined rating of multiple disconnects to be used to comply with 230.79.

Curt
_________________________
Curt Swartz

Top
Page 1 of 3 1 2 3 >


ECN Electrical Forums - sponsored by Electrical Contractor Network - Electrical and Code Related Discussion for Electrical Contractors, Electricians, Inspectors, Instructors, Engineers and other related Professionals