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#88221 - 05/23/04 11:54 AM Number of Services / Disconnects
iwire Offline
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Registered: 01/05/03
Posts: 4391
Loc: North Attleboro, MA USA
Is this service correct?





No mains at meter, no mains at panels, 24 throws of the hand to kill the whole building.


[This message has been edited by iwire (edited 05-23-2004).]
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Bob Badger
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Massachusetts
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#88222 - 05/23/04 12:25 PM Re: Number of Services / Disconnects
txsparky Offline
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Registered: 05/25/01
Posts: 552
Loc: Magnolia,.Texas U.S.A.
Not around here!
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#88223 - 05/23/04 12:30 PM Re: Number of Services / Disconnects
koz-man Offline
Member
Registered: 01/21/04
Posts: 10
Loc: Scranton Pa, USA
Violation...Art 230.70

Frank
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#88224 - 05/23/04 12:33 PM Re: Number of Services / Disconnects
CTwireman Offline
Member
Registered: 02/07/02
Posts: 840
Loc: Connecticut, USA
Is this another trick question Bob?

I say yes, it is correct, as long as the panels contain less than 6 breakers each.

More than that, and the panels need to be changed to main breakers. With all those new wires hanging there, that looks like what you are going to do.

Peter
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#88225 - 05/23/04 01:12 PM Re: Number of Services / Disconnects
Roger Offline
Member
Registered: 05/18/02
Posts: 1716
Loc: N.C.
It is Legal. Frank look at 230.71 and take note of the wording "six sets of circuit breakers"

Roger
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#88226 - 05/23/04 01:36 PM Re: Number of Services / Disconnects
caselec Offline
Member
Registered: 04/14/02
Posts: 558
Loc: San Jose, CA
I realize that the discussion is about the number of service disconnects but……..
What size are the circuit breakers in the panels? It looks like most of them are single pole so these would be lighting and appliance panels 408.14(B). If so they wouldn’t comply with 408.16(A). Exception 2 does permit this for existing installations but these services don’t look very old.
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#88227 - 05/23/04 01:37 PM Re: Number of Services / Disconnects
koz-man Offline
Member
Registered: 01/21/04
Posts: 10
Loc: Scranton Pa, USA
So you'll telling me that each panel doesn't need a main disconnecting means. I'm finding this very hard to accept.

What about Art. 230.79 (D) All other installations (multi-family) shall have a service disconnecting means rating of not less than 60 amperes.

Frank
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#88228 - 05/23/04 01:59 PM Re: Number of Services / Disconnects
DougW Offline
Member
Registered: 06/08/03
Posts: 1143
Loc: North Chicago, IL
I second the motion...

[ghettoEC] WHERE MY MAINS AT!!!! YOU DOWN WITH OCP? YOU GO, EC![/ghettoEC]
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#88229 - 05/23/04 02:42 PM Re: Number of Services / Disconnects
BPHgravity Offline
Member
Registered: 04/08/03
Posts: 139
Loc: Port Charlotte, Florida
I don't see how the term "sets" applies to this example. It's been my understanding that the term "sets" was added to allow multiple single pole brekers to be handle tied into one switch. (ROP 4-117, 4-118 and ROC 4-69)

As far as the original question goes, I don't see how this installation is permitted. I only see one service. There may be 4 service entrance conductors supplying 4 separate service enclosures, but I don't think the additional service entrances meet any of the exceptions to section 230.40 permitted by 230.71(A). Exception #2 could be used for the the multiple sets of service entrances, but is not allowed to be used for the purposes of 230.71(A) requirments. I feel its a violation unless someone can show otherwise.
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#88230 - 05/23/04 02:46 PM Re: Number of Services / Disconnects
caselec Offline
Member
Registered: 04/14/02
Posts: 558
Loc: San Jose, CA
Frank,

230.71 permits more than one service disconnect. 230.80 permits the combined rating of multiple disconnects to be used to comply with 230.79.

Curt
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Curt Swartz
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