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#88053 - 05/06/04 06:20 AM Spa Circuit though attic  
aldav53  Offline
Member
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 545
Chandler, AZ USA
Running a 50 amp Spa circuit and going to use 6/3 NM wire. This will go through the attic and 90 out from the panel to the back of the home. I need to run emt pipe when I stub out at each end. Can I rum this 6/3 NM through the pipe? It would be ridiculus to convert to THHN wire.


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#88054 - 05/06/04 09:04 AM Re: Spa Circuit though attic  
watthead  Offline
Member
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 172
South Carolina
It is required that when you leave the interior of the house or building that you convert to one of the required raceways or MC and that the equipment grounding conductor be insulated. You can move the tub inside or use an insulated egc. Sorry to be the bearer of the bad news.


#88055 - 05/06/04 10:21 AM Re: Spa Circuit though attic  
winnie  Offline
Member
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 649
boston, ma
If he used 6/3 UF for the entire run?

-Jon


#88056 - 05/06/04 11:35 AM Re: Spa Circuit though attic  
aldav53  Offline
Member
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 545
Chandler, AZ USA
Why would the EGC have to be insulated?, it would be mechanically protected in the pipe and has the sheathing around it too.


The Golden Rule - "The man with the gold makes the rule"

#88057 - 05/06/04 12:56 PM Re: Spa Circuit though attic  
winnie  Offline
Member
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 649
boston, ma
watthead's presumption is that the circuit is running _outside_ of the house. In my question I accepted this presumption. But re-reading your post this is actually not clear.

-Jon


#88058 - 05/06/04 01:42 PM Re: Spa Circuit though attic  
PCBelarge  Offline
Member
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 681
Dobbs Ferry, NY, USA
680.42(C) Interior Wiring to Outdoor Installations.

This section permits one to use the chapter 3 methods for the interior portions of the wiring for a hottub.
680.40 tells us to use parts I and II for the installation of the hottub. Within these parts it tells us that the outside wired portion is required to have an insulated EGC.

Besides NM is not permitted to be installed in a wet location such as an underground raceway.
UF does not have an insulated EGC, just a covered EGC, therefore it is not permitted.

Pierre


Pierre Belarge

#88059 - 05/06/04 04:20 PM Re: Spa Circuit though attic  
mvrandazzo  Offline
Member
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 110
As long as he stays inside the home MN cable is acceptable as per 680.21(A()(4).

"In the interior of one-family dwellings, or in the interior of accessory buildings associated with a one-family dwelling, any of the wiring methods recognized in Chapter 3 of this Code shall be permitted that comply with the provisions of this paragraph. Where run in a raceway, the equipment grounding conductor shall be insulated. Where run in a cable assembly, the equipment grounding conductor shall be permitted to be uninsulated, but it shall be enclosed within the outer sheath of the cable assembly."

As soon as you leave the structure you would have to convert. This usually is not that difficult. This is how I interpret it. I have done it this way for awhile with no prolbems. At least not yet.

Blessings. Mark


#88060 - 05/06/04 06:43 PM Re: Spa Circuit though attic  
walrus  Offline
Member
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 680
Bangor Me. USA
If indeed the run is going outside, could he pull an insulated GND(THWN) with the UF in a raceway?? and just not use the bare GND.?? or would it have to be part of the cable assy.?


#88061 - 05/06/04 07:53 PM Re: Spa Circuit though attic  
resqcapt19  Offline
Member
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 2,148
IL
walrus,
300.3(B) would require that the EGC be a part of the cable itself and not run as a seperate conductor.
Don


Don(resqcapt19)

#88062 - 05/07/04 11:55 AM Re: Spa Circuit though attic  
aldav53  Offline
Member
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 545
Chandler, AZ USA
("Besides NM is not permitted to installed in a wet location such as an underground raceway".)

This is not run under ground. It will only run from the top of the panel up to the attic in emt with w/p conn, through the attic, then 90 out down to the disc, then liquid-tite to the spa.
What would be the difference between that and an outdoor breaker panel having NM run to all the circuits, (which is how they are all done here in AZ).


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