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#88053 - 05/06/04 03:20 AM Spa Circuit though attic
aldav53 Offline
Member
Registered: 08/22/01
Posts: 545
Loc: Chandler, AZ USA
Running a 50 amp Spa circuit and going to use 6/3 NM wire. This will go through the attic and 90 out from the panel to the back of the home. I need to run emt pipe when I stub out at each end. Can I rum this 6/3 NM through the pipe? It would be ridiculus to convert to THHN wire.
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#88054 - 05/06/04 06:04 AM Re: Spa Circuit though attic
watthead Offline
Member
Registered: 10/13/01
Posts: 172
Loc: South Carolina
It is required that when you leave the interior of the house or building that you convert to one of the required raceways or MC and that the equipment grounding conductor be insulated. You can move the tub inside or use an insulated egc. Sorry to be the bearer of the bad news.
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#88055 - 05/06/04 07:21 AM Re: Spa Circuit though attic
winnie Offline
Member
Registered: 09/15/03
Posts: 649
Loc: boston, ma
If he used 6/3 UF for the entire run?

-Jon
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#88056 - 05/06/04 08:35 AM Re: Spa Circuit though attic
aldav53 Offline
Member
Registered: 08/22/01
Posts: 545
Loc: Chandler, AZ USA
Why would the EGC have to be insulated?, it would be mechanically protected in the pipe and has the sheathing around it too.
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#88057 - 05/06/04 09:56 AM Re: Spa Circuit though attic
winnie Offline
Member
Registered: 09/15/03
Posts: 649
Loc: boston, ma
watthead's presumption is that the circuit is running _outside_ of the house. In my question I accepted this presumption. But re-reading your post this is actually not clear.

-Jon
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#88058 - 05/06/04 10:42 AM Re: Spa Circuit though attic
PCBelarge Offline
Member
Registered: 06/08/03
Posts: 681
Loc: Dobbs Ferry, NY, USA
680.42(C) Interior Wiring to Outdoor Installations.

This section permits one to use the chapter 3 methods for the interior portions of the wiring for a hottub.
680.40 tells us to use parts I and II for the installation of the hottub. Within these parts it tells us that the outside wired portion is required to have an insulated EGC.

Besides NM is not permitted to be installed in a wet location such as an underground raceway.
UF does not have an insulated EGC, just a covered EGC, therefore it is not permitted.

Pierre
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#88059 - 05/06/04 01:20 PM Re: Spa Circuit though attic
mvrandazzo Offline
Member
Registered: 05/13/02
Posts: 110
As long as he stays inside the home MN cable is acceptable as per 680.21(A()(4).

"In the interior of one-family dwellings, or in the interior of accessory buildings associated with a one-family dwelling, any of the wiring methods recognized in Chapter 3 of this Code shall be permitted that comply with the provisions of this paragraph. Where run in a raceway, the equipment grounding conductor shall be insulated. Where run in a cable assembly, the equipment grounding conductor shall be permitted to be uninsulated, but it shall be enclosed within the outer sheath of the cable assembly."

As soon as you leave the structure you would have to convert. This usually is not that difficult. This is how I interpret it. I have done it this way for awhile with no prolbems. At least not yet.

Blessings. Mark
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#88060 - 05/06/04 03:43 PM Re: Spa Circuit though attic
walrus Offline
Member
Registered: 07/25/02
Posts: 680
Loc: Bangor Me. USA
If indeed the run is going outside, could he pull an insulated GND(THWN) with the UF in a raceway?? and just not use the bare GND.?? or would it have to be part of the cable assy.?
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#88061 - 05/06/04 04:53 PM Re: Spa Circuit though attic
resqcapt19 Offline
Member
Registered: 11/10/00
Posts: 2148
Loc: IL
walrus,
300.3(B) would require that the EGC be a part of the cable itself and not run as a seperate conductor.
Don
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#88062 - 05/07/04 08:55 AM Re: Spa Circuit though attic
aldav53 Offline
Member
Registered: 08/22/01
Posts: 545
Loc: Chandler, AZ USA
("Besides NM is not permitted to installed in a wet location such as an underground raceway".)

This is not run under ground. It will only run from the top of the panel up to the attic in emt with w/p conn, through the attic, then 90 out down to the disc, then liquid-tite to the spa.
What would be the difference between that and an outdoor breaker panel having NM run to all the circuits, (which is how they are all done here in AZ).
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