ECN Electrical Forum - Discussion Forums for Electricians, Inspectors and Related Professionals

Topic Options
Rate This Topic
#87639 - 03/31/04 05:53 PM 14-2 switch leg on 20amp circuit
Randy Offline
Member
Registered: 09/25/02
Posts: 25
Loc: Concord, Va.
is it legal to use a 14-2 for a switch leg only on a 20 amp circuit?
Top
2017 / 2014 NEC & Related Books and Study Guides
#87640 - 03/31/04 06:05 PM Re: 14-2 switch leg on 20amp circuit
Ryan_J Offline
Moderator
Registered: 08/19/03
Posts: 1374
Loc: West Jordan, Utah, USA
NO!

It is an illegal branch circuit tap. Fixture wires are one of the few legal branch circuit taps. These are discussed in sections 402.10 and 402.11. You have a branch circuit, not fixture wires.
_________________________
Ryan Jackson,
Salt Lake City
Top
#87641 - 04/01/04 05:46 AM Re: 14-2 switch leg on 20amp circuit
watthead Offline
Member
Registered: 10/13/01
Posts: 172
Loc: South Carolina
What about a switch that controls a motor with thermal overload protection?
Top
#87642 - 04/01/04 06:25 AM Re: 14-2 switch leg on 20amp circuit
Ryan_J Offline
Moderator
Registered: 08/19/03
Posts: 1374
Loc: West Jordan, Utah, USA
Bob (Iwire) is right...this is a tough crowd! Watthead: I would agree with you on that one.
_________________________
Ryan Jackson,
Salt Lake City
Top
#87643 - 04/02/04 02:02 AM Re: 14-2 switch leg on 20amp circuit
iwire Offline
Moderator
Registered: 01/05/03
Posts: 4391
Loc: North Attleboro, MA USA
Yes the members here are on top of things.

That's good. it forces me to look things up like I should be anyway

Bob

I agree, no on the 14 AWG with the 20 amp lighting circuit.
_________________________
Bob Badger
Construction & Maintenance Electrician
Massachusetts
Top
#87644 - 04/02/04 08:11 AM Re: 14-2 switch leg on 20amp circuit
HotLine1 Offline


Member
Registered: 04/03/02
Posts: 6778
Loc: Brick, NJ USA
Reminds me of a thread a while back....some adamant discussions on a tap rule for #14 from #12 (20 amp circ OCP.

That thread had a lot of action....time permitting I'll have to look for it.

#14 switch leg off of a #12 20 amp, you get a red sticker!

As to Watthead's comment, yes thats allowable, but the original ?? seemed to lean toward a resi situation.

John
_________________________
John
Top
#87645 - 04/02/04 06:36 PM Re: 14-2 switch leg on 20amp circuit
Randy Offline
Member
Registered: 09/25/02
Posts: 25
Loc: Concord, Va.
when or is a #14 wire allowed on a 20 amp circuit ?
Top
#87646 - 04/02/04 07:16 PM Re: 14-2 switch leg on 20amp circuit
CTwireman Offline
Member
Registered: 02/07/02
Posts: 840
Loc: Connecticut, USA
Randy,

Circuits supplying motors and air conditioning equipment.

Case in point: The AC units at my house are ultra high efficiency.

Nameplate says:
Min circuit ampacity: 11 amps.
Min fuse/breaker: 15 amps
Max fuse/breaker: 30 amps

So the feed could be #14 protected by a 30 amp breaker.

Peter

[This message has been edited by CTwireman (edited 04-02-2004).]
_________________________
Peter
Top
#87647 - 04/04/04 03:17 PM Re: 14-2 switch leg on 20amp circuit
iwire Offline
Moderator
Registered: 01/05/03
Posts: 4391
Loc: North Attleboro, MA USA
By Randy.
Quote:
when or is a #14 wire allowed on a 20 amp circuit ?


14 AWG is rated 20 amps @ 60 C & 75 C, even 25 amps @ 90 C which helps when needing to derate.

The only thing that normally keeps 14 AWG on a 15 amp breaker is 240.4(D)

Quote:
240.4(D) Small Conductors. Unless specifically permitted in 240.4(E) through (G), the overcurrent protection shall not exceed 15 amperes for 14 AWG, 20 amperes for 12 AWG, and 30 amperes for 10 AWG copper; or 15 amperes for 12 AWG and 25 amperes for 10 AWG aluminum and copper-clad aluminum after any correction factors for ambient temperature and number of conductors have been applied.


Notice the first part of that says:

"Unless specifically permitted in 240.4(E) through (G)"

(E) Tap Conductors.

(F) Transformer Secondary Conductors.

(G) Overcurrent Protection for Specific Conductor Applications

(G) has a table that lists about 10 applications that may allow 14 AWG on a breaker larger than 15 amps.

As Peter (CTwireman) pointed out HVAC equipment is one of those times, so are motors.

With the following nameplate data 14 AWG would be fine on a 30 amp breaker

Nameplate says:
Min circuit ampacity: 19 amps.
Max fuse/breaker: 30 amps

Bob
_________________________
Bob Badger
Construction & Maintenance Electrician
Massachusetts
Top

Member Spotlight
Member Since: 11/17/00
Posts: 2232
New in the Gallery:
SE cable question
Featured:

2017 NEC and Related
2017 NEC
Now Available!

Shout Box


Who's Online
0 registered (), 43 Guests and 10 Spiders online.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
 
New in the Gallery:
SE cable question
 
Top Posters (30 Days)
Admin 47
HotLine1 43
gfretwell 19
Ruben Rocha 12
Trumpy 9
 
Newest Members
KrmtFrg, Stack, Scotto, Freecrowder, clee512

ECN Electrical Forums - sponsored by Electrical Contractor Network - Electrical and Code Related Discussion for Electrical Contractors, Electricians, Inspectors, Instructors, Engineers and other related Professionals