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#86248 - 09/26/03 06:17 PM Does Sect. 680 apply to bathtubs?
Jim M Offline
Member
Registered: 08/10/01
Posts: 457
Loc: Chestertown, MD, USA
Although Sect. 680 covers similar type installations it does not mention bathtub specifically. I feel that the same conditions should apply. Is this just an oversight? I don't remember bathtubs being covered under any other Section.

Am I having a senior moment?
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#86249 - 09/27/03 04:24 AM Re: Does Sect. 680 apply to bathtubs?
Electricmanscott Offline
Member
Registered: 01/12/02
Posts: 1457
Loc: Holden, MA USA
680 Does not cover bathtubs nor should it in my opinion. A bathtub does not have any related electrical equipment as do the items covered in 680 therfore there is really no issue other than gfci requirements in the bathroom.
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#86250 - 09/27/03 05:51 AM Re: Does Sect. 680 apply to bathtubs?
Jim M Offline
Member
Registered: 08/10/01
Posts: 457
Loc: Chestertown, MD, USA
The reason I asked was because a customer wants a receptacle on the wall near the soaking tub ledge for a torchiere. The length of the cord would allow this to easily fall into the tub. However, if this were a hot tub the receptacle would need to be much further away. I feel the danger is just as great with this tub as a hot tub.
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#86251 - 09/27/03 08:45 AM Re: Does Sect. 680 apply to bathtubs?
Joe Tedesco Offline
Member
Registered: 10/07/00
Posts: 2749
Loc: Boston, Massachusetts USA
Absolutely Not!!

Quote:
406.8(C) Bathtub and Shower Space. A receptacle shall not be installed within a bathtub or shower space.

550.13(F) Receptacle Outlets Not Permitted. Receptacle outlets shall not be permitted in the following locations:

(1) Receptacle outlets shall not be installed in or within reach [750 mm (30 in.)] of a shower or bathtub space.

552.41(F) Receptacle Outlets Not Permitted.
(1) Shower or Bathtub Space. Receptacle outlets shall not be installed in or within reach [750 mm (30 in.)] of a shower or bathtub space.


_________________________
Joe Tedesco, NEC Consultant
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#86252 - 09/27/03 11:57 AM Re: Does Sect. 680 apply to bathtubs?
resqcapt19 Offline
Member
Registered: 11/10/00
Posts: 2148
Loc: IL
Joe,
How do the rules in 550 and 552 apply to houses?
Don
_________________________
Don(resqcapt19)
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#86253 - 09/27/03 12:24 PM Re: Does Sect. 680 apply to bathtubs?
Joe Tedesco Offline
Member
Registered: 10/07/00
Posts: 2749
Loc: Boston, Massachusetts USA
Don:

You know exactly what the answer is!

The purpose of my reply to the original question was to share the search I made on the NEC electronic version to give those without that resource an educational reminder.

Seems like that was appreciated by those who are interested in similar rules that are directed toward the NEC learning process.

I hope that this helps you to understand my specific intentions and some of the reasons why I take some of my valuable time everyday to share some of the other code rules with other members. I enjoy this very much!

If we were discussing the subject of bathrooms in a seminar or meeting when this was brought up the students would leave with a couple of more answers to a possible question on an examination!
_________________________
Joe Tedesco, NEC Consultant
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#86254 - 09/27/03 07:02 PM Re: Does Sect. 680 apply to bathtubs?
resqcapt19 Offline
Member
Registered: 11/10/00
Posts: 2148
Loc: IL
Joe,
And my point is that there is no current code section that can be cited to prevent the installation in question. There are a number of rules in 550 that probably should be in Chapters 1 to 4, but they aren't. I never understood why electricity is more dangerous in mobile homes than in standard homes, but the NFPA must think that it is!!
Don

[This message has been edited by resqcapt19 (edited 09-27-2003).]
_________________________
Don(resqcapt19)
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#86255 - 09/27/03 07:24 PM Re: Does Sect. 680 apply to bathtubs?
triple Offline
Member
Registered: 04/01/02
Posts: 184
Loc: Wisconsin
What just happened here? Joe's second post sounds like he has taken offence to Don's question. I thought Don asked a very reasonable question (one which many readers probably had). Joe, at first, gave three code references that probably don't even apply to Jim's situation. By Jim's description, the receptacle isn't "within a bathtub or shower space". The receptacle is only adjacent to the tub. McGraw-Hill's "National Code Handbook" gives a definition of this zone. It is not the same zone referenced for luminaire placement. Also, the parts of 550 and 552 that Joe mentioned might be good side notes but should have been accompanied by at least a blurb describing their limits.

Again, I want to be clear. The service Joe provided by adding his actual code text is very informative and helpful. However, by simply pasting them with no explanation is obviously going to be misleading. One sentence would have sufficed; “these code excerpts don’t directly apply but are a good ‘reminder’”.

I hope I have misunderstood the conversation here. If I haven't, then I can only assume that there have been prior verbal altercations between Joe and Don because this exchange alone definitely did not warrant any animosity.


[This message has been edited by triple (edited 09-27-2003).]
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#86256 - 09/28/03 07:50 AM Re: Does Sect. 680 apply to bathtubs?
Electricmanscott Offline
Member
Registered: 01/12/02
Posts: 1457
Loc: Holden, MA USA
Tripple I would say there is somewhat of a history there. Joe I don't quite understand your point. Unless this is a manufactured or mobile home the only application would be 406.8 (C) and 210.8 (A) 1. From Jim's description I think this receptacle is allowed unless it is above the ledge of the tub within the tubs footprint. Next to the tub is acceptable. Safe? Maybe not. Jim constructive criticism. Rather than a vague question as you first posted ask the question you really want the answer to. You will get a better response.
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#86257 - 09/28/03 10:50 AM Re: Does Sect. 680 apply to bathtubs?
WebSparky Offline
Member
Registered: 02/21/03
Posts: 138
Loc: Cleveland, Ohio
Hi Guys,

Maybe this would apply?
Quote:
2002 NEC 110.3 Examination, Identification, Installation, and Use of Equipment.
(8) Other factors that contribute to the practical safeguarding of persons using or likely to come in contact with the equipment.
_________________________
Dave
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