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#85997 - 08/27/03 03:21 AM code question
skidmark Offline
Junior Member
Registered: 08/26/03
Posts: 2
Loc: clarkesville, ga. U.S.A
I saw a resedential panel in which the electrician had pulled all of the circuits thru a piece of 2 inch pvc conduit. Isn't this a code violation and if so where is it in the 2002 N.E.C.?
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#85998 - 08/27/03 04:05 AM Re: code question
Ron Offline
Member
Registered: 03/13/02
Posts: 582
Loc: White Plains, NY
Unless there was damage to the conductors, I don't think it's a violation. Why do you?
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#85999 - 08/27/03 04:12 AM Re: code question
Redsy Offline
Member
Registered: 03/28/01
Posts: 2056
Loc: Bucks County PA
Although there are exceptions, this practice would be a violation of the basic rule of 312.5(C).
However, this tpye of installation does seem to be common in some areas of the country.
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#86000 - 08/27/03 06:46 AM Re: code question
GEO Offline
Member
Registered: 03/12/03
Posts: 47
Loc: Lancaster,Pa
as stated there are exceptions.
this is allowed provided you meet those conditions.
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#86001 - 08/27/03 06:49 AM Re: code question
Tom Offline
Member
Registered: 01/01/01
Posts: 1044
Loc: Shinnston, WV USA
Unless there were very few cables involved, I don't see how this installation could be in compliance with the previously mentioned 312.5(C). I've measured a few brands of Romex & depending on the wire gauge, the limit could be as few as 5 cables in a 2" PVC. Also, very often the requirement for derating is overlooked in this type of installation.

Tom
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#86002 - 08/27/03 03:43 PM Re: code question
Ron Offline
Member
Registered: 03/13/02
Posts: 582
Loc: White Plains, NY
Fill derating does not apply if it the conduit is installed for protection from physical damage only and is not a complete conduit system.
See Chapter 9, Table 1, Note 2
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#86003 - 08/27/03 06:18 PM Re: code question
skidmark Offline
Junior Member
Registered: 08/26/03
Posts: 2
Loc: clarkesville, ga. U.S.A
According to 312.5(c) it is a code violation. The circuits were being pulled from the basement into the bottom of a flush mounted panel. There were 16 12-2 circuits, 1 10-3 circuit, and 1 6-2 circuit. All of these wires were squeezed into a 4 ft. piece of 2 inch pvc conduit. I don't see how he got them in. Had to use soap! Thanks to all for the input.
P.S. The gentleman had a restricted license good for only 200 amp services. The house has a 600 amp service.
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#86004 - 08/27/03 10:05 PM Re: code question
Big Jim Offline
Member
Registered: 07/18/03
Posts: 394
Loc: Denver, CO USA
I'm curious. How big does a house have to be to need a 600 amp service? (asks me, crusing by on 125)
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#86005 - 08/28/03 03:24 AM Re: code question
zapped208 Offline
Member
Registered: 02/18/03
Posts: 196
Loc: Somewhere in USA
Big Jim, I am starting to trim out a house that has a 600 amp service, Its 14,000 sq ft! Also has 25 ton of a/c in it.
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#86006 - 08/28/03 08:19 AM Re: code question
Tom Offline
Member
Registered: 01/01/01
Posts: 1044
Loc: Shinnston, WV USA
Ron,

312.5(C)(g) doesn't say anything about the conduit being installed as a system. The entire exception expects the conduit to not connect to anything at the top & if thats the case, why bother putting in part g of the exception?

The use of conduit for this type of installation is rarely done for protection, it is for apperance, so I don't think Note 2 to table 1 of chapter 9 applies.

Of course, I've been totally out in left field before.

Anyone else have an opinion on this?
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Few things are harder to put up with than the annoyance of a good example.
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