The Electrical Contractor Network

ECN Electrical Forum
Discussion Forums for Electricians, Inspectors and Related Professionals

Books, Tools and Test Equipment for Electrical and Construction Trades

Register Now!

Register Now!

We want your input!

Featured:
   

2017 NEC and Related
2017 NEC
Now Available!

   
Recent Posts
Sprinklered equipment 26-008
by bigpapa
12/02/16 04:24 PM
On Delay Relay with Auto Reset
by Potseal
12/01/16 09:59 AM
Wow, that was close!
by jraef
11/28/16 07:06 PM
Earthquake in New Zeeland
by RODALCO
11/27/16 11:25 PM
Calling all Non-US members!! (Non-US only)
by Tjia1981
11/27/16 06:33 AM
New in the Gallery:
12.5A through 0.75mm flex (just out of curiosity)
Shout Box

Top Posters (30 Days)
gfretwell 15
HotLine1 10
Trumpy 8
Texas_Ranger 8
sparkyinak 7
Who's Online
2 registered (NORCAL, sparkyinak), 205 Guests and 4 Spiders online.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Page 1 of 2 1 2 >
Topic Options
Rate This Topic
#85820 - 08/08/03 05:23 PM New Wire Nuts
harold endean Offline
Member

Registered: 02/16/02
Posts: 2248
Loc: Boonton, NJ
Has anyone seen those new wire nuts? The ones that you don't have to twist> You just push in the wire and that's it. They make the wire nuts good for 3-4 and I think 5 conductors? I believe the brand name begins with a "W". Anyway, not that I want to start anything, but if they took away UL listing for a #12 ga wire "pin back" for receptacles, why would they allow these types of "pin back" wire nuts? Any thoughts?

Top
2014 / 2011 NEC & Related Books and Study Guides
#85821 - 08/08/03 05:33 PM Re: New Wire Nuts
stamcon Offline
Member

Registered: 03/24/01
Posts: 322
Loc: So San Francisco CA
Harold, I read a post somewhere, that this person's opinion was, there is more vibration at switches and receptacles and more likely a chance of the connection getting loose. I don't know the reason for the #12 elimination(while still allowing #14), but the end result is good.

Top
#85822 - 08/08/03 06:38 PM Re: New Wire Nuts
Bill Addiss Offline
Member

Registered: 10/07/00
Posts: 4196
Loc: NY, USA
Harold,

I think you mean WAGO connectors.
There's a few threads here in General and Non-US areas where they are discussed. You can do a search for WAGO.

I had the same thought about the WAGO connection being similar to the Receptacle and brought the question to the non-us area for opinions there. Apparently they have been in use for many years and I don't remember hearing any complaints about them. Some comments led me to believe they thought they were superior to our wirenuts.

>> What do you use for splicing conductors?

I'd be interested in hearing more comments on this, either here or on the other thread. I thought I saw that Ideal is making these type of connectors too, but don't seem to be advertising them much.

Bill

Top
#85823 - 08/08/03 07:26 PM Re: New Wire Nuts
elektrikguy Offline
Member

Registered: 05/25/02
Posts: 133
Loc: woodstock,ga,usa
The last company I worked for was looking for ways to speed up work in a typical high rise. They were turned to these by the supply house. I tried a few connections and flat out refused to use them. The connections are such that ,in my opinion, a high load could cause a potential failure due to small area of contact between connector pressure point and the copper conductor. I would like to add that if you were to grab the connector and give it a tug it would pull off the wires. Try doing that with mechanically twisted wires and a wirenut.

Top
#85824 - 08/08/03 08:04 PM Re: New Wire Nuts
Bill Addiss Offline
Member

Registered: 10/07/00
Posts: 4196
Loc: NY, USA
I would trust a wirenut (I'm a pre-twister) more than this type of connector too.

I think hearing that someone trusted the push-in type of conector over the wirenut may have been at least partially because that's what they were accustomed to using. It does show some level of confidence in them though that may indicate that they do make an adequate connection for what they are used for and may be getting a bad rep here.

Bill

Top
#85825 - 08/09/03 09:18 AM Re: New Wire Nuts
Mike Wescoatt Offline
Member

Registered: 06/17/01
Posts: 164
Loc: Cedar City, Utah
I use these all the time and a variant of these in all of my motor controller panels. The difference between the back-stab and these is that the back-stab use a strip of brass as the spring where the Wago push nuts use a piece of spring steel for tension and retention and a seperate piece of plated copper for the electrical contact. These are UL listed for 20A and rated for 24A. In all of the past threads about these pushnuts I have sounded like a Wago salesman, but I love them and rarely use anything else. I have heard of people having problems with using stranded 12 or 14AWG THHN/THWN but after the first couple of attempts I have it down cold and get it right the first time. I can strip and install these almost twice as fast as anyone else and I have never had a callback on any of these installations. Also... the vibration from motors has had no effect on these where I have had Wiedmuller block screws loosen over time and then melt into odd shapes...

_________________________
Mike Wescoatt

Top
#85826 - 08/09/03 02:11 PM Re: New Wire Nuts
sparky Offline
Member

Registered: 10/18/00
Posts: 5545
It never ceases to amaze me, how manufacture's tout the latest cheesball widget as being the cutting edge of the trade.

Not so much that there is crap on the market, but that we in the trade trenchs believe we are offered the best here in America

and then go around waving an 'international NEC' document........

[This message has been edited by sparky (edited 08-09-2003).]

Top
#85827 - 08/09/03 07:14 PM Re: New Wire Nuts
ThinkGood Offline
Member

Registered: 08/07/02
Posts: 1084
Loc: Milwaukee, WI
 Quote:
...cutting edge of the trade...


Get too close to that edge and you might fall off.

P. S. I know 3M makes Scotchlok connectors for use with smaller conductors (about 18 through 26AWG). How about larger conductors? Do they have a small area of contact with the conductor? The Scotchloks do have to be squeezed once everything is in place, as opposed to just "stabbing" the conductors in.

Top
#85828 - 08/10/03 12:05 PM Re: New Wire Nuts
C-H Offline

Member

Registered: 09/17/02
Posts: 1508
Loc: Stockholm, Sweden
I bought a pack of these connectors a few week ago and set about testing them. It didn't say WAGO on them but they looked just like it. They have all European marks plus UL and CSA, so presumably they are sold on both sides of the pond. (90°C and 2.5 mm² max.)

Tricky to get the conductor in, but there is no risk of the conductor falling out. In fact, I think it is more vibration resistant than a wirenut.

Previously I've encountered another type of push-in connector, which the wire goes in easily but unfortunately out just as easily.

But here comes the problem: How the h**l do you get the wire out? Twist back and forth and pull. Yeah, right. It goes out if you pull really hard and twist it simultanously. When I took the connector apart, the odd strand remains in the connector. If it had release buttons, like those on devices, it would have been much better than wirenuts or barrier strips.

{Goes off to invent the no-strip connector}

[This message has been edited by C-H (edited 08-10-2003).]

Top
#85829 - 08/10/03 01:01 PM Re: New Wire Nuts
Bill Addiss Offline
Member

Registered: 10/07/00
Posts: 4196
Loc: NY, USA
C-H,

You may be stepping into something here ..

From an engineering standpoint, or personal experience, what is your opinion of the mechanical/electrical connection in these? Do you think they're reliable?

Bill

[This message has been edited by Bill Addiss (edited 08-10-2003).]

Top
Page 1 of 2 1 2 >



ECN Electrical Forums - sponsored by Electrical Contractor Network - Electrical and Code Related Discussion for Electrical Contractors, Electricians, Inspectors, Instructors, Engineers and other related Professionals