The Electrical Contractor Network

ECN Electrical Forum
Discussion Forums for Electricians, Inspectors and Related Professionals

Books, Tools and Test Equipment for Electrical and Construction Trades

Register Now!

Register Now!

We want your input!

Featured:
   

2017 NEC and Related
2017 NEC
Now Available!

   
Recent Posts
Industrail Control Panel bonding per 409.108
by sparkyinak
12/09/16 06:29 PM
Calling all Non-US members!! (Non-US only)
by aussie240
12/07/16 02:39 AM
Photo Upload Tutorial
by DanK
12/06/16 11:35 PM
Sprinklered equipment 26-008
by bigpapa
12/02/16 04:24 PM
On Delay Relay with Auto Reset
by Potseal
12/01/16 09:59 AM
New in the Gallery:
12.5A through 0.75mm˛ flex (just out of curiosity)
Shout Box

Top Posters (30 Days)
gfretwell 13
HotLine1 10
sparkyinak 9
Texas_Ranger 8
Trumpy 6
Who's Online
1 registered (brsele), 230 Guests and 4 Spiders online.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Topic Options
Rate This Topic
#83822 - 02/22/03 01:16 PM updating scary old wires in old house
barryb-pdx Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 02/22/03
Posts: 3
Loc: portland, oregon usa
I removed a light fixture for painting and the cloth insulation on the old ungrounded BX was crumbling. I'd like to run new Romex from box to fixture and from fixture to wall switch, but how do I address the code issues like protecting and securing the cable if I'm just dropping it down inside a wall?
And do I just leave the old BX inside the walls since it's stapled to the studs?

Top
2014 / 2011 NEC & Related Books and Study Guides
#83823 - 02/22/03 02:12 PM Re: updating scary old wires in old house
sparky Offline
Member

Registered: 10/18/00
Posts: 5545
you would need to 'fish' bettween given points, the difficulty of which is dependent on the type of construction.

you would also need to take the old BX completely out of the circuit to safely abandon it.

myself, i tie all conductors together so as to make energizing the abandonded
conductor(s) improbable.

others may forward different methodology

yrs
~S

Top
#83824 - 02/22/03 03:11 PM Re: updating scary old wires in old house
Crowbar Offline
Member

Registered: 01/13/03
Posts: 34
Loc: Pittsburgh, PA,USA
I had very good success rewiring my brother's house a few years back by tying the romex to the old BX and pulling it through. Evidently they didn't staple the BX very well when they built the place, but it made fishing the romex MUCH easier.

Rich

Top
#83825 - 02/22/03 09:38 PM Re: updating scary old wires in old house
barryb-pdx Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 02/22/03
Posts: 3
Loc: portland, oregon usa
the fishing is trivial; it's a straight shot down the wall to the switch from the attic.
I'm just wondering how I'm supposed to secure (staple) the Romex inside the wall, rather than letting is "float" in there. (It wouldn't really float if I didn't leave any slack.)
Code requires this, yes? But I can't imagine that everyone puts extra holes in their walls to staple new wires.
Unfortunately my old ungrounded BX is stapled pretty securely, so I can't get it out. I just clipped it above the switch box and where it drops down from the attic.

Top
#83826 - 02/23/03 02:29 AM Re: updating scary old wires in old house
iwire Offline
Moderator

Registered: 01/05/03
Posts: 4343
Loc: North Attleboro, MA USA
NEC 2002 334.30(B)(1) NM (Romex) shall be permitted to be unsupported where the cable is fished between access points, where concealed in finished buildings or finished panels for prefabricated buildings and supporting is impracticable.

Bob

[This message has been edited by iwire (edited 02-23-2003).]
_________________________
Bob Badger
Construction & Maintenance Electrician
Massachusetts

Top
#83827 - 02/23/03 03:58 AM Re: updating scary old wires in old house
Joe Tedesco Offline
Member

Registered: 10/07/00
Posts: 3325
Loc: Boston, Massachusetts USA
I agree! I also wonder why the code does not include the correct identification of the cable being discussed here! the code should a -B everywhere that the NM, NMC, and NMS cable is mentioned in the code, and there are hundreds.

Another issue I have with the code panels!

They don't want to accept my proposals because it would create too much work for everyone who writes catalogs and other documents.

PS: If you have saved any of the old BX and can take some close up pictures, send them to me and I will post them here for us to see.
_________________________
Joe Tedesco, NEC Consultant

Top
#83828 - 02/24/03 08:21 AM Re: updating scary old wires in old house
SvenNYC Offline
Member

Registered: 08/19/02
Posts: 1685
Loc: New York City
>>NEC 2002 334.30(B)(1) NM (Romex) shall be permitted to be unsupported where the cable is fished between access points,<<

Can the same thing be done if you're replacing old BX with new armored cable? Or does armored cable ALWAYS have to be supported regardless if it's being fished behind finished walls?

Top
#83829 - 02/24/03 12:02 PM Re: updating scary old wires in old house
HotLine1 Offline

Member

Registered: 04/03/02
Posts: 6805
Loc: Brick, NJ USA
Sven:
Yes, you can "fish" bx/mc into walls or the like, and not have to staple it as you would on an "open" wall.
John
_________________________
John

Top
#83830 - 02/24/03 01:48 PM Re: updating scary old wires in old house
cubby964 Offline
Member

Registered: 10/18/02
Posts: 69
Loc: USA
If I may ask:
Is it the intent of the CODE to allow fished wires (NM-B, MC, etc) unsupported because they are protected from damage by the finished walls, whereas, they are unprotected during construction in new walls?

Top



ECN Electrical Forums - sponsored by Electrical Contractor Network - Electrical and Code Related Discussion for Electrical Contractors, Electricians, Inspectors, Instructors, Engineers and other related Professionals