The Electrical Contractor Network

ECN Electrical Forum
Discussion Forums for Electricians, Inspectors and Related Professionals

Books, Tools and Test Equipment for Electrical and Construction Trades

Register Now!

Register Now!

We want your input!

Featured:
   

2017 NEC and Related
2017 NEC
Now Available!

   
Recent Posts
Industrail Control Panel bonding per 409.108
by sparkyinak
Today at 03:17 PM
Calling all Non-US members!! (Non-US only)
by aussie240
Yesterday at 02:39 AM
Photo Upload Tutorial
by DanK
12/06/16 11:35 PM
Sprinklered equipment 26-008
by bigpapa
12/02/16 04:24 PM
On Delay Relay with Auto Reset
by Potseal
12/01/16 09:59 AM
New in the Gallery:
12.5A through 0.75mm² flex (just out of curiosity)
Shout Box

Top Posters (30 Days)
gfretwell 13
HotLine1 9
sparkyinak 8
Texas_Ranger 8
Potseal 6
Who's Online
1 registered (Tony Moscioni), 213 Guests and 6 Spiders online.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Page 1 of 2 1 2 >
Topic Options
Rate This Topic
#83546 - 02/04/03 03:33 PM Violations found when beginning a renovation?
Elec_VA Offline
Member

Registered: 01/15/03
Posts: 41
Loc: Sterling, VA, USA
Starting a renovation job at a car dealer in No. VA and looked around the electric room. Dear GOD! To start a small list:
110.12 ( a nice one that covers all crappy work), 110.22 (NO PANEL SCHEDULE AT ALL AND THERE ARE THE MDP AND SIX SUB PANELS), 348.30 (A), 348.30(B), 314.28 (C), 314.23 (A), 410.12, 410.16 (C), 410.18 (A), 410.22, 410.28 (These last ones cover support, covers on boxes and luminaries, and general instillation of lighting), 250.146 (non-grounded receptacles with sensitive electronics plugged in), 250.53 (cover mount receptacle ground bonding jumper), 400.8 (uses not permitted for flexible cord), 358.26 (number of bends in an EMT run), 314.17 (openings to be closed), 110.26 (spaces about elec. equip.), 300.14, and 210.4 (D) (identification of ungrounded conductors). What a mess. The feeds to all the RTU's were done with unmarked red wire (#2, all, despite a feed for a 30A, 50A, and 90A RTU with no bond bushings despite concentric KO's), there was flex all over the ceiling, open boxes, etc.) Nasty stuff

These guys are about a mile from the Pentagon! It’s a good thing it’s a different jurisdiction, or I would have serious worries about that building. Not good at all.

Horror stories?
_________________________
Pete

Top
2014 / 2011 NEC & Related Books and Study Guides
#83547 - 02/04/03 04:49 PM Re: Violations found when beginning a renovation?
Scott35 Offline

Broom Pusher and
Member

Registered: 10/19/00
Posts: 2724
Loc: Anaheim, CA. USA
...And on Page # 252 of the Non-Compliancy Report / Correction Notice, .....

Get out the 3 ring binder used for job folder!

Good luck on this project!

Scott35 S.E.T.

btw: get some digital shots to post in the violations forum!
_________________________
Scott " 35 " Thompson
Just Say NO To Green Eggs And Ham!

Top
#83548 - 02/04/03 05:14 PM Re: Violations found when beginning a renovation?
HotLine1 Offline

Member

Registered: 04/03/02
Posts: 6804
Loc: Brick, NJ USA
Elec-Va:
Hopefully your contract says something to the effect of "not responsible for any existing violations".

Have you spoken to the local AHJ?? You may want to have a conversation with him, if possible, to avoid any unpleasant surprises.

Welcome to ECN

John
_________________________
John

Top
#83549 - 02/04/03 05:17 PM Re: Violations found when beginning a renovation?
sparky Offline
Member

Registered: 10/18/00
Posts: 5545
8:00 hours.....
asked by a local developer to attend renovation walkthru, emphasis on salvagable electrical system
9:00 hours......
completed walkthru, service entrance viewed, panels opened, JB inspected, devices inspected at random, fixtures viewed at random.....
9:15 hours...
forwarded verbal results.

'Dumpster time'

Top
#83550 - 02/04/03 08:31 PM Re: Violations found when beginning a renovation?
Elec_VA Offline
Member

Registered: 01/15/03
Posts: 41
Loc: Sterling, VA, USA
I have never wanted a digital camera more! My scanner stopped working a while ago but if I can get it going I expect a few shots on Friday, when I stop back on the job for a few hours.

I talked to the local "multi-hat" inspector for a good long while. There are mass amounts of lumber used as structural elements (despite the fact that wood is not allowed by local building code on commercial jobs), the bathrooms don't comply to any form of local/national building code, the prints call for us to double lug the RTU's and the Air Compressor for the service area of the dealership (can you say Change Order and violation!)

The engineer calls for us to use the existing RTU feed breaker from MDP to feed our new sub panels (hence the double lug and change order that we are about to do!). A big OOPS! Changes involve a re-feed of all existing RTU's from the new sub-panels and demo of all existing roof work. I guess the owner of my company will be happy because none of this stuff is in the bid and a simple service build out has turned into a pretty good upgrade (ticket work).

I wish I could dump this one off on someone else; It's not going to be a fun job. A lot of stuff too be done, to say the least.
_________________________
Pete

Top
#83551 - 02/05/03 06:40 AM Re: Violations found when beginning a renovation?
nesparky Offline
Member

Registered: 06/21/01
Posts: 650
Loc: omaha,ne
This sounds like a good place for a walk thru with a digital camcorder with sound attachment. As you take your pictures or "roll you film" you make comments about what you see. You also note if that will be fixed as part of your work or not. Maybe the AHJ will want a copy.
I have found out the hard way that this can sure be a great money saver. Also if an argument starts over what is required and what is to be paid for, you have the preexisting conditions on record.
_________________________
ed

Top
#83552 - 02/06/03 03:29 AM Re: Violations found when beginning a renovation?
sparky Offline
Member

Registered: 10/18/00
Posts: 5545
one could do backflips while chanting in toungues before the general public has any impression or sense of urgency.

put a high $$$ sign on it, and you'll be amazed at the attention you instantly gain.

Top
#83553 - 02/06/03 08:15 AM Re: Violations found when beginning a renovation?
sparky66wv Offline
Member

Registered: 11/17/00
Posts: 2339
Loc: West Virginia
You guys act as if this isn't normal..

You're spoiled. Come work in southern WV for an eye-opener.

Case in point:

Quote from an inspector this week (a new one I hadn't used before):

"I saw your test-marks, but I tightened the lugs a little more anyway. Aluminum wires always loosen up..."

BTW, no worries at the Pentagon. It is in good hands.
_________________________
-Virgil
Residential/Commercial Inspector
5 Star Inspections
Member IAEI

Top
#83554 - 02/06/03 10:02 AM Re: Violations found when beginning a renovation?
txsparky Offline
Member

Registered: 05/25/01
Posts: 578
Loc: Magnolia,.Texas U.S.A.
 Quote:
I saw your test-marks, but I tightened the lugs a little more anyway. Aluminum wires always loosen up..."


What a dumba$$!Didn't you have another inspector do the same thing awhile back.Go ahead and ask him to start terminating everything for you(Hey...It's free labor )
Seriously though,if he chooses to tighten the lugs beyond the manufacturers torque requirements,then he should be held liable in the event of a failure at that connection.
Keep that digital camera handy during inspections and photograph him doing this.Post it here then give him the website address. That would be fun!!

[This message has been edited by txsparky (edited 02-06-2003).]
_________________________
Donnie

Top
#83555 - 02/06/03 01:19 PM Re: Violations found when beginning a renovation?
Bjarney Offline
Moderator

Registered: 04/10/02
Posts: 2561
Loc: West-Southern Inner-Northeast ...
 Quote:
I saw your test-marks, but I tightened the lugs a little more anyway. Aluminum wires always loosen up...


If that happens again, do this. Carefully repeat the comment back to the inspector, and ask him to verify the statement for accuracy. Then ask, "Will you deny having said that—while under oath?" […should his incompetence possibly be litigated at a future time.]




[This message has been edited by Bjarney (edited 02-06-2003).]

Top
Page 1 of 2 1 2 >



ECN Electrical Forums - sponsored by Electrical Contractor Network - Electrical and Code Related Discussion for Electrical Contractors, Electricians, Inspectors, Instructors, Engineers and other related Professionals