The Electrical Contractor Network

ECN Electrical Forum
Discussion Forums for Electricians, Inspectors and Related Professionals

Books, Tools and Test Equipment for Electrical and Construction Trades

Register Now!

Register Now!

We want your input!

Featured:
   

2017 NEC and Related
2017 NEC
Now Available!

   
Recent Posts
Industrail Control Panel bonding per 409.108
by sparkyinak
Yesterday at 06:29 PM
Calling all Non-US members!! (Non-US only)
by aussie240
12/07/16 02:39 AM
Photo Upload Tutorial
by DanK
12/06/16 11:35 PM
Sprinklered equipment 26-008
by bigpapa
12/02/16 04:24 PM
On Delay Relay with Auto Reset
by Potseal
12/01/16 09:59 AM
New in the Gallery:
12.5A through 0.75mm² flex (just out of curiosity)
Shout Box

Top Posters (30 Days)
gfretwell 13
HotLine1 10
sparkyinak 9
Texas_Ranger 8
Potseal 6
Who's Online
1 registered (Tjia1981), 219 Guests and 5 Spiders online.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Page 1 of 2 1 2 >
Topic Options
Rate This Topic
#83409 - 01/30/03 06:04 AM Warning Ribbon Installation
Joe Tedesco Offline
Member

Registered: 10/07/00
Posts: 3325
Loc: Boston, Massachusetts USA
For NMCC Article 354 installations how do you install the "warning ribbon" when you use the boring machine to install underground feeders?

Does the article 300 rule apply, or does it apply only for laterals?

Joe Rossi
_________________________
Joe Tedesco, NEC Consultant

Top
2014 / 2011 NEC & Related Books and Study Guides
#83410 - 01/30/03 06:56 AM Re: Warning Ribbon Installation
resqcapt19 Offline
Member

Registered: 11/10/00
Posts: 2209
Loc: IL
Joe,
300.5(D)(3) does not require the use of "warning ribbons" when the installation is made without a trench. I don't have my ROPs and ROCs here at work, but there was a panel comment in the '99 or '02 code cycle that said the warning ribbon rule does not apply to directional boring installations. In my opinion the hazard does not change just because a different installation method was used. Also the rule only applies to service conductors.
Don

[This message has been edited by resqcapt19 (edited 01-30-2003).]
_________________________
Don(resqcapt19)

Top
#83411 - 01/30/03 02:01 PM Re: Warning Ribbon Installation
txsparky Offline
Member

Registered: 05/25/01
Posts: 578
Loc: Magnolia,.Texas U.S.A.
Speaking from experience(after augering into an underground primary )the PoCo here doesnt use warning tapes on bores.
_________________________
Donnie

Top
#83412 - 01/30/03 02:32 PM Re: Warning Ribbon Installation
ga.sparky56 Offline
Member

Registered: 11/24/02
Posts: 582
Loc: young harris georgia usa
My son, who is in the directional boring business,has worked all over the U.S. He says that the one time that they were asked to pull a warning tape in it kept breaking.He says that if a warning tape could be made strong enough,it would work,but it would be right on top of whatever you were pulling.

Top
#83413 - 01/30/03 05:11 PM Re: Warning Ribbon Installation
ThinkGood Offline
Member

Registered: 08/07/02
Posts: 1084
Loc: Milwaukee, WI
The State of MN says "yes." (See summary at bottom.)

[This message has been badly mangled and repaired by ThinkGood (edited 01-30-2003).]

[This message has been edited by ThinkGood (edited 01-30-2003).]

Top
#83414 - 01/30/03 05:21 PM Re: Warning Ribbon Installation
txsparky Offline
Member

Registered: 05/25/01
Posts: 578
Loc: Magnolia,.Texas U.S.A.
That would mean that a second bore has to be done above the main bore to pull in a marking tape! Wonder if that is ever enforced

[This message has been edited by txsparky (edited 01-30-2003).]
_________________________
Donnie

Top
#83415 - 01/30/03 07:04 PM Re: Warning Ribbon Installation
ga.sparky56 Offline
Member

Registered: 11/24/02
Posts: 582
Loc: young harris georgia usa
My source says that in 10 years he's never seen it enforced or even mentioned except the one time. They are required to pull in a tracerwire from time to time for locating purposes.

[This message has been edited by ga.sparky56 (edited 01-31-2003).]

Top
#83416 - 01/31/03 12:12 AM Re: Warning Ribbon Installation
ThinkGood Offline
Member

Registered: 08/07/02
Posts: 1084
Loc: Milwaukee, WI
txsparky:

So, what's it like to auger into an underground primary? Do you feel that warning ribbon would have prevented your boring encounter?

This guy looks like he's about to give the gas company workers some overtime...

Top
#83417 - 01/31/03 04:19 AM Re: Warning Ribbon Installation
txsparky Offline
Member

Registered: 05/25/01
Posts: 578
Loc: Magnolia,.Texas U.S.A.
Thinkgood,
Yep. I was augering an 18"Dia. hole to set a light pole and if ribbon would have starting coming up with the dirt,I would have seen it and stopped.The PoCo apparently thought so too because when they sent me their huge bill and I contested for that reason I didn't hear from them anymore.
_________________________
Donnie

Top
#83418 - 01/31/03 04:54 AM Re: Warning Ribbon Installation
pseudonym Offline
Member

Registered: 12/13/02
Posts: 24
Loc: USA
20000331_1.doc
April 3, 2000
SERVICE LATERALS - WARNING RIBBON REQUIREMENTS

Section 300-5(d) was revised in the 1999 National Electrical Code® by adding a new paragraph that
requires a warning ribbon to identify the location of service laterals. Service laterals that are not
encased in concrete and that are buried 18 inches or more below grade are required to have their
location identified by a warning ribbon that is placed in the trench at least 12 inches above the
service lateral.

As noted in the 1998 NEC® Committee Report on Proposals, the substantiation for such
requirement is to provide a warning for persons making excavations in the vicinity of deep service
installations where there often is no physical protection for the conductors and where there is no
overcurrent protection on the supply end of the conductors. A warning ribbon is not required where
service laterals are buried less than 18 inches deep and would usually be installed within a suitable
raceway. It is recognized that for such installations the effectiveness of a warning ribbon would be
minimized if the excavation would reach the electrical installation and the ribbon at the same time.

Section 300-5(d) is intended to apply only to 'service laterals' that are connected to the customer-owned
electrical equipment and wiring on the premises side of the 'service point'.
• It does not apply to utility-owned installations on the serving-utility side of the 'service point'.
• It literally does not apply to 'underground service-entrance conductors' although such
underground service-entrance conductors could be subject to the same degree of hazard.
• In does not apply to feeders and branch circuits since they are generally provided with
overcurrent protection.

NEC® Definition of Service Lateral - The underground service conductors between the street main,
including any risers at a pole or other structure or from transformers, and the first point of
connection to the service-entrance conductors in a terminal box or meter or other enclosure, inside
or outside the building wall. Where there is no terminal box, meter, or other enclosure, the point of
connection shall be considered to be the point of entrance of the service conductors into the
building.

NEC® Definition of Service Point - The point of connection between the facilities of the serving
utility and the premises wiring.
NEC® Definition of Service-Entrance Conductors, Underground System. The service conductors
between the terminals of the service equipment and the point of connection to the service lateral.
Summary - Warning ribbons are required for service lateral installations on the premises side of the
service point in accordance NEC® Section 300-5(d). Service laterals that are not encased in concrete
and that are buried 18 inches or more below grade are required to have their location identified by a
warning ribbon. This requirement applies to all approved wiring methods including raceways or
direct buried cables. The warning ribbon is required to be located at least 12 inches above the
electrical installation. The warning ribbon is required for all types of installation methods, including
but not limited to, open trench, plowing, and directional boring methods.

Board of Electricity
1821 University Ave.
Suite S-128
St. Paul, MN 55104
TEL (651) 642-0800
FAX (651) 642-0441
TTY/MRS (800) 627-3529 www.electricity.state.mn.us
State of Minnesota
Board of Electricity

Top
Page 1 of 2 1 2 >



ECN Electrical Forums - sponsored by Electrical Contractor Network - Electrical and Code Related Discussion for Electrical Contractors, Electricians, Inspectors, Instructors, Engineers and other related Professionals