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#81609 - 09/03/02 03:04 PM Switch Loops
frodo Offline
Member

Registered: 05/16/01
Posts: 129
Loc: louisville, ky usa
Hi,
This is probably an old worn out item but I was wondering what the code says about 14AWG on a 20A circuit?

-regards

frodo

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#81610 - 09/03/02 03:25 PM Re: Switch Loops
resqcapt19 Offline
Member

Registered: 11/10/00
Posts: 2209
Loc: IL
It basically says, NO.
Don
_________________________
Don(resqcapt19)

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#81611 - 09/03/02 03:31 PM Re: Switch Loops
frodo Offline
Member

Registered: 05/16/01
Posts: 129
Loc: louisville, ky usa
hi,
i guess i better clarify the situation. a bathroom is required to have a 20A circuit..you may also supply other outlets on that circuit that are in the bathroom...

so if you install a 14 AWG switchleg to feed the lights that would not be allowed right?

frodo

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#81612 - 09/03/02 03:38 PM Re: Switch Loops
frodo Offline
Member

Registered: 05/16/01
Posts: 129
Loc: louisville, ky usa
hi,
does 210.24 not allow a 14AWG tap that feeds lighting in a bathroom?

thanks

frodo

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#81613 - 09/03/02 06:26 PM Re: Switch Loops
HotLine1 Offline

Member

Registered: 04/03/02
Posts: 6804
Loc: Brick, NJ USA
Frodo:
We do not "tap" 14 off of a 20 amp circuit.
There may or may not be "permission" to do it in the NEC, but we don't.

We do "bathroom" outlet, GFI, residential & commercial, as a 20 amp circuit.

HotLine1
John
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John

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#81614 - 09/03/02 06:53 PM Re: Switch Loops
frodo Offline
Member

Registered: 05/16/01
Posts: 129
Loc: louisville, ky usa
hi,
i beleive it is permissible to tap a 20A branch circuit with #14 according to 210.19 A4 and 210.24.

this is a common practice.

if you take a 8 inch piece of #12 and connect that from the 20A branch circuit to a single pole switch then go from the load side of the switch to a ligting outlet with two or more fixtures using #14 that is totally legal.

it may also be allowed in oter sections of the code...

it would not be allowed on a cord and plug connected load

-regards

frodo



[This message has been edited by frodo (edited 09-03-2002).]

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#81615 - 09/03/02 07:13 PM Re: Switch Loops
resqcapt19 Offline
Member

Registered: 11/10/00
Posts: 2209
Loc: IL
I think that your installation is a violation of 240.4. This is not a fixture whip or fixture wire. There is no permission in 210.19 to extend #14 protected at 20 amps from the switch to a light fixture. 210.24 says you must look at 210.19 for specific requirements.
Don
_________________________
Don(resqcapt19)

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#81616 - 09/03/02 07:27 PM Re: Switch Loops
frodo Offline
Member

Registered: 05/16/01
Posts: 129
Loc: louisville, ky usa
hi,
thanks for the reply don, but as i read 240.4 (E) this allows a tap using #14 from a #12.

the exception covers this situation...a bathroom requires a 20A circuit...if it feeds only a single bath then you can TAP the 20A circuit SAFELY using the rules as outlined in 210.19 (4) Exception No. 1 and table 210.24 which clearly allow this...to supply two or more outlets...not a RECEPTACLE but lighting outlets and exhuast fan..

i quote from the NEC HANDBOOK PAGE 87 Highlighted Area regarding 210.24

"Table 210.24 summarizes branch-circuit protection requirements of conductors, overcurrent protection, outlet DEVICES, maximum load, and permissible load where two or more outlets are supplied. If the branch circuit serves a fixture load and supplies two or more fixture outlets, 210.23 requires the BRANCH circuit to have a SPECIFIC ampere rating that is based on the rating of the overcurrent device, as stated in 210.3. Etc.

this rule applies more closely than anything in 240.4, but specifically covers BRANCH CIRCUITS and not TAPS...

the tap is the wire in the box nailed on the wall that feeds the DEVICE which is the switch, this device/switch feeds a LIGHT FIXTURE or LUMINAIRE...i dont see any problem here...am i missing something?

if it were me, i always use number 12 anyway...i dont even buy #14!...

an associate asked me because he got gigged by a BUILDING INSPECTOR who told him that he could not use #14 to tap from a 20A circuit..

i am still open to hear any further comments though

i had no doubt that it was a loaded question!!!

-regards

frodo



[This message has been edited by frodo (edited 09-03-2002).]

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#81617 - 09/03/02 08:29 PM Re: Switch Loops
frodo Offline
Member

Registered: 05/16/01
Posts: 129
Loc: louisville, ky usa
hi,
i will recommend that the tap be #12 from the branch circuit to the switch and #12 from the switch to the light fixtures...that sounds like the easiest way to settle the matter!!!

-regards

frodo

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#81618 - 09/04/02 04:58 AM Re: Switch Loops
resqcapt19 Offline
Member

Registered: 11/10/00
Posts: 2209
Loc: IL
Your application does not appear to meet any of the requirements in Exception #1 to 210.19(A)(4). Requirements (a) through (e) place strict limits on the use of this exception. You might be able to stretch this rule and use a short #14 tap to feed the switch, but you can't use #14 from the switch to the fixture.
Don
_________________________
Don(resqcapt19)

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