The Electrical Contractor Network

ECN Electrical Forum
Discussion Forums for Electricians, Inspectors and Related Professionals

Books, Tools and Test Equipment for Electrical and Construction Trades

Register Now!

Register Now!

We want your input!

Featured:
   

2017 NEC and Related
2017 NEC
Now Available!

   
Recent Posts
Calling all Non-US members!! (Non-US only)
by aussie240
Today at 02:39 AM
Photo Upload Tutorial
by DanK
Yesterday at 11:35 PM
Sprinklered equipment 26-008
by bigpapa
12/02/16 04:24 PM
On Delay Relay with Auto Reset
by Potseal
12/01/16 09:59 AM
Wow, that was close!
by jraef
11/28/16 07:06 PM
New in the Gallery:
12.5A through 0.75mm≤ flex (just out of curiosity)
Shout Box

Top Posters (30 Days)
gfretwell 13
HotLine1 9
Texas_Ranger 8
sparkyinak 7
Trumpy 6
Who's Online
0 registered (), 102 Guests and 5 Spiders online.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Page 1 of 3 1 2 3 >
Topic Options
Rate This Topic
#81263 - 08/01/02 03:04 PM What is neat and workmanlike?
Joe Tedesco Offline
Member

Registered: 10/07/00
Posts: 3325
Loc: Boston, Massachusetts USA
110.12 Mechanical Execution of Work.

Electrical equipment shall be installed in a neat and workmanlike manner.

What does this mean to a "Qualified Person?

I try to be sure that the installation is done right the first time!
_________________________
Joe Tedesco, NEC Consultant

Top
2014 / 2011 NEC & Related Books and Study Guides
#81264 - 08/01/02 03:32 PM Re: What is neat and workmanlike?
jlhmaint Offline
Member

Registered: 05/25/02
Posts: 208
Loc: Fredericktown, OH, U.S.A
To me it means "TAKE PRIDE IN YOUR WORK" no matter were you are working make it look like it was done for a palace. Remeber your work is a direct reflection of you. Every time we bring a machine tool to our building from the corporate shop i cant believe some of the wireing the veteran maint guys do. no pride in there work.

Top
#81265 - 08/01/02 04:11 PM Re: What is neat and workmanlike?
sparky Offline
Member

Registered: 10/18/00
Posts: 5545
true jlhmaint,
yet to a 'qualified' person the neatest job may incorporate the worst 'workmanlike' electrical design.....

Top
#81266 - 08/01/02 04:12 PM Re: What is neat and workmanlike?
HotLine1 Offline

Member

Registered: 04/03/02
Posts: 6804
Loc: Brick, NJ USA
Oh Well, here goes:
Neat and workmanlike should mean that the job was done professionally, and LOOKS it.
Level, square, plumb, straight, etc., etc.

Pride in your work? That's my company policy
Do it right the first time? Definitley.
There's some shoddy work around, and it's to bad that it reflects on the trade in general.
HotLine1
John
_________________________
John

Top
#81267 - 08/01/02 04:34 PM Re: What is neat and workmanlike?
Ron Offline
Member

Registered: 03/13/02
Posts: 577
Loc: White Plains, NY
Reprinted from the neca site.
The American National Standards Institute (ANSI) has approved NECA 1-2000, Standard Practices for Good Workmanship in Electrical Construction. Envisioned as the ‚Äėcenterpiece‚Äô of the National Electrical Installation Standards series of publications, NECA 1 defines what is meant by installing equipment in a ‚Äúneat and workmanlike manner‚ÄĚ as required by the National Electrical Code, Section 110-12.

Subjects covered include receiving, storing, and protecting construction materials on site, properly mounting and supporting electrical equipment, installing raceways and conductors, and Americans with Disability Act Guidelines (ADAG) for locating electrical products and systems. NECA 1 is the sixth NEIS to receive ANSI approval. It will be available for purchase in August.
_________________________
Ron

Top
#81268 - 08/01/02 06:26 PM Re: What is neat and workmanlike?
The Watt Doctor Offline
Member

Registered: 12/23/01
Posts: 443
Loc: Mont Belvieu, TX
I agree with all that was stated above. Let me throw another twist into this mix. Neat and workmanlike is defined by the inspector who passes or fails the installation. When an installation passes inspection, it is by virtue of that fact, neat and workmanlike. We all know that any self respecting inspector would never pass an installation that wasn't up to code (neat and workmanlike). It is also the electrician who installs the work. Here in Texas, as many of you may know, there is not a state license for electricians. Therefore, many areas don't have an AHJ. In those areas with no inspections, the electricians define what is neat and workmanlike.

Neatly,
Doc
_________________________
The Watt Doctor
Altura Cogen
Channelview, TX

Top
#81269 - 08/02/02 11:42 AM Re: What is neat and workmanlike?
sparky66wv Offline
Member

Registered: 11/17/00
Posts: 2339
Loc: West Virginia
Oh the venerable 110.12...

It was the first code I memorized as an apprentice, and became my favorite (and least favorite) quote in the entire book.

The subjectivity of the wording lends to all sorts of interpretation, and if the AHJ was in a particularly bad mood that day, any installation could fail 110.12 .

There's nothing more that I could add, but that I'm glad to see the quotes and better explanations of this.

I even asked an inspector once if he was going to bust me on 110.12 for having my conduit a little skewed... He just looked at me for a moment with an odd look on his face, and said "Nah..."

_________________________
-Virgil
Residential/Commercial Inspector
5 Star Inspections
Member IAEI

Top
#81270 - 08/03/02 05:47 AM Re: What is neat and workmanlike?
sparky Offline
Member

Registered: 10/18/00
Posts: 5545
 Quote:
and said "Nah..."


as opposed to?
!!OFF WITH HIS HEAD!!!

yer far to self-critiqing my friend....


'Neat & Workmanlike" , IMHO, is when other electricians say 'oooh!'

Top
#81271 - 08/03/02 10:03 AM Re: What is neat and workmanlike?
pauluk Offline
Member

Registered: 08/11/01
Posts: 7693
Loc: Norfolk, England
I had a problem with some PVC conduit in a garage/home workshop a few weeks ago.

I carefully fitted the spacer saddles in line with the brickwork across the end extension and installed the conduit nicely parallel with the joints. When I stood back and looked at it from a distance the conduit (white) was obviously sloping downhill.

The problem was that the brickwork was not horizontal. If I adjusted the conduit with a spirit level to get it dead horizontal, it looked fine from a distance, but up close it looked bad because it didn't line up withe the brickwork.

No way to win on that one!

Top
#81272 - 08/03/02 01:27 PM Re: What is neat and workmanlike?
golf junkie Offline
Member

Registered: 04/22/01
Posts: 511
Loc: York, NE
Pauluk,

When I run into situations like you describe, all too often I might add, I always follow the building lines. It's likely no one will ever put a level on your pipework, but if it looks crooked to the eye everyone can see it.

JMO
GJ

Top
Page 1 of 3 1 2 3 >



ECN Electrical Forums - sponsored by Electrical Contractor Network - Electrical and Code Related Discussion for Electrical Contractors, Electricians, Inspectors, Instructors, Engineers and other related Professionals