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#80871 - 06/09/02 10:45 PM Kitchen Lights and Outlets On Seperate Circuits
AC Offline
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Registered: 05/29/02
Posts: 23
Loc: New York, New York
Regarding not putting kitchen lights and outlets on the same circuits, does that apply only to the countertop GFCI outlets, or also to general purpose convienence outlets on walls away from countertops and anything wet?
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#80872 - 06/10/02 05:36 PM Re: Kitchen Lights and Outlets On Seperate Circuits
JMichael Offline
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Registered: 03/10/02
Posts: 60
Loc: Norwich, NY, USA
Not sure if I understand your post correctly. But any recep in the kitchen/dining are must be gfci protected. As for the lighting run a seperate circuit for it. As I am sure you will agree most clients/customers want there kitchens bright. Its better practice to run a seperate circuit just for that...


[This message has been edited by JMichael (edited 06-10-2002).]
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#80873 - 06/10/02 06:13 PM Re: Kitchen Lights and Outlets On Seperate Circuits
sparky66wv Offline
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Registered: 11/17/00
Posts: 2232
Loc: West Virginia
210.52(B)(1-3)

The only thing you can have with the small appliance circuits is a clock and the timer, light, and igniter for a gas-fired stoves, ranges, cooktops, and ovens.

220.16(A) does not give permission to put the kitchen lights on the small appliance circuits, but merely to include the small appliance circuits in the demand load factors.

[This message has been edited by sparky66wv (edited 06-10-2002).]
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#80874 - 06/10/02 07:42 PM Re: Kitchen Lights and Outlets On Seperate Circuits
resqcapt19 Offline
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Registered: 11/10/00
Posts: 2148
Loc: IL
JMichae,
Quote:
...But any recep in the kitchen/dining are must be gfci protected.

Not true, GFCI protection is only required for the receptacles that serve the countertop.
Don
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#80875 - 06/10/02 08:15 PM Re: Kitchen Lights and Outlets On Seperate Circuits
JMichael Offline
Member
Registered: 03/10/02
Posts: 60
Loc: Norwich, NY, USA
I gotta read the NEC one of these days.. I am so used to the AHJ setting the standards.. In the Hamptons (Long Island, New York) The dining room also needs to be 20 amp GFCI protected. It can come off of the kitchen receps. But the dining room needs 2-20 amp gfci protected circuits. This is mainly due to the use of hot plates in the dining area's.

James
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#80876 - 06/10/02 08:30 PM Re: Kitchen Lights and Outlets On Seperate Circuits
sparky66wv Offline
Member
Registered: 11/17/00
Posts: 2232
Loc: West Virginia
Quote:
...GFCI protection is only required for the receptacles that serve the countertop.

Yep, 210.8(A)(6).

(Uh, I didn't realize that either..)

[This message has been edited by sparky66wv (edited 06-10-2002).]
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#80877 - 06/11/02 08:55 AM Re: Kitchen Lights and Outlets On Seperate Circuits
George Offline
Member
Registered: 02/23/02
Posts: 375
I believe that the code requires: a minimum of 2 recept circuits for the kitchen (and related areas) and a minimum of 2 recept circuits for the kitchen counter.

A total of 2 recept cicruits can serve both of these requirements.

If a third circuit is present and does not serve the counter top area, it may serve light fixtures also.

Like others have said, it is perhaps not the best of practice to have lights on the kitchen area circuits in any case.
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#80878 - 06/11/02 10:04 AM Re: Kitchen Lights and Outlets On Seperate Circuits
resqcapt19 Offline
Member
Registered: 11/10/00
Posts: 2148
Loc: IL
Gerorge,
Quote:
If a third circuit is present and does not serve the counter top area, it may serve light fixtures also.

I don't think so. Look at 210.52(B)(1). This section requires that all receptacles in the kitchen and related areas that are required to be installed by 210.52(A) or (C) be on the 2 or more small applinace branch circuits.
Don(resqcapt19)
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#80879 - 06/13/02 07:52 AM Re: Kitchen Lights and Outlets On Seperate Circuits
safari Offline
Member
Registered: 11/06/01
Posts: 11
Loc: Newport, Oregon, USA
210.52.B is very clear in that any receptacle in the kitchen or dining room ( in either (A)general or (C) counters)MUST be on a small appliance branch circuit there must be at least 2 of these but may be many more.
Also they shall have NO other outlets except clock or for a gas kitchen appliance.
I feel that it is very clear that lighting may NOT be on any branch circuit with receptacles in any kitchen,pantry,breakfast room,dining room or similar area of a dwelling unit.

tom
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#80880 - 06/13/02 09:28 AM Re: Kitchen Lights and Outlets On Seperate Circuits
Matt M Offline
Member
Registered: 03/25/01
Posts: 93
Loc: Laporte, MN, USA
I have been taught, and it has always been my understanding that section 210.52b(1), only requires a total of two small appliance branch circuits for the entire kitchen/dining/etc. area combined. Not that it would be wise to only provide two for the entire area in most cases, but nevertheless still compliant.

Section 210.52b(2) makes it clear that these two or "more" small appliance branch circuits shall have no other outlets (with two exceptions). The way I see it, the word "more" in this sentence makes it clear that "all" receptacle circuits in these areas have no other outlets.

Matt
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