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#80669 - 05/05/02 11:33 PM replace 2 wire recpt in a metal box  
frodo  Offline
Member
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 129
louisville, ky usa
hi,
if i replace a two wire non grounding recept with a gfci and lable the recept plate that it has no equip. grnd..what do you do about the metal box? run a seperate ground or is this permitted without a grnd?

-regards

frodo


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#80670 - 05/09/02 09:03 PM Re: replace 2 wire recpt in a metal box  
smokey  Offline
Member
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 41
cctxusa
is the raceway metal if so u may use the coduit as ure ground for the box make sure all couplings and connectors are tightly fastened


#80671 - 05/09/02 09:16 PM Re: replace 2 wire recpt in a metal box  
frodo  Offline
Member
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 129
louisville, ky usa
hi,
thanks for the reply. the box is mounted on a wood board. romex is feeding the outlet.

-regards

frodo

[This message has been edited by frodo (edited 05-09-2002).]


#80672 - 05/09/02 09:30 PM Re: replace 2 wire recpt in a metal box  
smokey  Offline
Member
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 41
cctxusa
i would change the box out with a plastic nail on


#80673 - 05/10/02 07:34 AM Re: replace 2 wire recpt in a metal box  
Electricmanscott  Offline
Member
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 1,457
Holden, MA USA
Ok so where do you stop? Why not rewire the whole circuit? Because you are doing a simple repair thats why. I would just replace the receptacle with the gfci and move on. I would put my but right out there and say that every single old ungrounded residential system is wired to metal boxes. The NEC makes no refrence to changing out the boxes when replacing a receptacle.


#80674 - 05/18/02 11:17 AM Re: replace 2 wire recpt in a metal box  
Frank Cinker  Offline
Member
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 311
Pennsylvania
I agree with electricmanscott. Why turn a minor electrical repair into a major event.

[This message has been edited by Frank Cinker (edited 05-18-2002).]


#80675 - 05/19/02 09:16 AM Re: replace 2 wire recpt in a metal box  
frodo  Offline
Member
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 129
louisville, ky usa
hi,
thanks for thge relies guys. i have to admit that scott thinks the way i do. every outlet box in most OLDER homes is METAL. 2 wire system feeding everything.

i just replaced the recept. with a GFCI and labeled the GFCI with a sticker that says " NO EQUIPMENT GROUND".

a plastic nail-up box would not have worked because the board was only 1/2 thick. so to avoid driving the cost up, i left everything except the old recept and cover.

thanks

frodo


#80676 - 05/19/02 07:20 PM Re: replace 2 wire recpt in a metal box  
Electricmanscott  Offline
Member
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 1,457
Holden, MA USA
Oddly enough the average homeowner will have no idea what the stic
ker means, but they will know that it makes the outlet ugly!


#80677 - 07/24/02 04:39 AM Re: replace 2 wire recpt in a metal box  
joeh20  Offline
Member
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 95
Tullahoma, TN, 37388
A new customer has several rental units that I'm am becoming all to familar with. All built in the 50s, all 2 wire with no ground wires. He has asked for Gfci in kitchens and baths.

Do I just replace and label no ground, or is it code compliant to fish a single #12 solid insulated green wire to a clamp on a metal water pipe. All houses have copper pipes, and these are all grounded.

This is practical where the panel is on one end of the house and the baths or kitchens are on the other. I have seen it done around here, but wondered if it was a violation to have separate parallel ground paths, I felt it was safer to have the one ground to the piping, when the entire circuit wasn't going to be rewired. And the gfci tester would see a ground and trip it out. Sometimes this is easy to do, and sometimes a run to the panel and new 12/2 w ground is just as easy.
Is it worse to have this ground installed in this way, than to not have it all? What do yall think, it seems as if all these units are getting my way, and I just want to do what is it right and code compliant.

There are about 2000 homes here this age and all 2 wire without grounds and every time one sells the new owners are changing the kitchen and bath recepts out, without rewiring the hole house. Just wondered which way to go. thanks joe


Lighting the way

#80678 - 07/24/02 07:21 AM Re: replace 2 wire recpt in a metal box  
Redsy  Offline
Member
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 2,056
Bucks County PA
If you install a GFCI, there is no need to connect to the water piping. But, due to the unlikelihood that the GFCIs will be tested regularly, I would prefer to go to ground, if possible. If you do, however, you must connect within 5 ft. from where the water line enters the building. See 250.130(C)


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