The Electrical Contractor Network

ECN Electrical Forum
Discussion Forums for Electricians, Inspectors and Related Professionals

Books, Tools and Test Equipment for Electrical and Construction Trades

Register Now!

Register Now!

We want your input!

Featured:
   

2017 NEC and Related
2017 NEC
Now Available!

   
Recent Posts
Industrail Control Panel bonding per 409.108
by sparkyinak
Yesterday at 03:17 PM
Calling all Non-US members!! (Non-US only)
by aussie240
12/07/16 02:39 AM
Photo Upload Tutorial
by DanK
12/06/16 11:35 PM
Sprinklered equipment 26-008
by bigpapa
12/02/16 04:24 PM
On Delay Relay with Auto Reset
by Potseal
12/01/16 09:59 AM
New in the Gallery:
12.5A through 0.75mm˛ flex (just out of curiosity)
Shout Box

Top Posters (30 Days)
gfretwell 13
HotLine1 9
Texas_Ranger 8
sparkyinak 8
Trumpy 6
Who's Online
0 registered (), 202 Guests and 6 Spiders online.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Page 1 of 2 1 2 >
Topic Options
Rate This Topic
#80011 - 02/13/02 07:31 PM Grounding to water pipe
beach Offline
Member

Registered: 02/12/02
Posts: 26
A licensed electrical contractor I work with says running a ground wire from a recpt to a water pipe bonding with a copper strap is an approved method for obtaining a ground from a 2 wire system. Example: knob and tube wiring, he ran a #12 wire from the recpt to a water pipe (3/4 galv) to acheive a ground. I argued with him since it was my belief this was not an approved method.

Please shed some light please. I have a 2002 NEC. Please reference some code so I can better understand, also a suggested approved method if his is not.

The local is Sacramento, CA In city limits.

Thank you
Jon

Top
2014 / 2011 NEC & Related Books and Study Guides
#80012 - 02/13/02 07:39 PM Re: Grounding to water pipe
resqcapt19 Offline
Member

Registered: 11/10/00
Posts: 2209
Loc: IL
Jon,
Look at 250.130(C)
Don(rescqpt19)
_________________________
Don(resqcapt19)

Top
#80013 - 02/13/02 08:03 PM Re: Grounding to water pipe
beach Offline
Member

Registered: 02/12/02
Posts: 26
In reading it is my understanding that his connection is only permitted if within 5 ft of the pipe entrance since it is not a commercial or indusrtial but rather a residential building.

IS THIS CORRECT?

Jon

Top
#80014 - 02/14/02 02:37 AM Re: Grounding to water pipe
sparky Offline
Member

Registered: 10/18/00
Posts: 5545
beach,
first you must consider if said conductor is a 'Bond" or a 'Grounding Electrode Conductor' (or GEC). The 5' rule would apply to the latter.

Top
#80015 - 02/14/02 04:34 AM Re: Grounding to water pipe
Electricmanscott Offline
Member

Registered: 01/12/02
Posts: 1478
Loc: Holden, MA USA
Jon, I believe you are correct, you must run the ground to within 5 feet of water line point of entry, or you could run it into the panels ground bar. This or may not be accepted where you are. Here in Mass we are not allowed to do this. They have deleted 250.130(C)

Top
#80016 - 02/14/02 02:45 PM Re: Grounding to water pipe
dana1028 Offline
Member

Registered: 01/09/02
Posts: 163
Loc: San Carlos, CA
Beach - you are in Calif. - the NEC 1996 is the state adopted code (not '99 or 2002) -...so

250-50(b)Excetion - says "shall be permitted to be grounded to any accessible point on the GES as described in 250-81, or to any accessible point on the GEC."...going to 250-81....
250-81(a) - Metal underground water pipe - there is no requirement for attaching within 5' of entry into the bldg....(unless I missed somthing but I don't think I did) ....so - your elect. contractor wired this correctly....until Calif. finally gets around to adopting the 1999.

Top
#80017 - 02/14/02 03:44 PM Re: Grounding to water pipe
Electricmanscott Offline
Member

Registered: 01/12/02
Posts: 1478
Loc: Holden, MA USA
Wow I can not beleive there are states out there that do not keep up with current code. Anyone still using the knob and tube out there?

Top
#80018 - 02/14/02 09:27 PM Re: Grounding to water pipe
beach Offline
Member

Registered: 02/12/02
Posts: 26
Knob and tube? Of course....Why? Have you heard of something better?

Top
#80019 - 02/14/02 09:39 PM Re: Grounding to water pipe
dlabrenz Offline
Member

Registered: 09/04/01
Posts: 25
Loc: Muskegon, MI
The 5 foot rule for the water pipe connection first appeared in the 1993 NEC. If the grounding connection was not made within the first five feet from the point where the water service enters the building, it would not appear to be done correctly.

Top
#80020 - 02/15/02 05:09 AM Re: Grounding to water pipe
Redsy Offline
Member

Registered: 03/28/01
Posts: 2138
Loc: Bucks County PA
Knob and tube is still an acceptable wiring method as an extension to existing k&t.
Not that I would choose to do so.

Top
Page 1 of 2 1 2 >



ECN Electrical Forums - sponsored by Electrical Contractor Network - Electrical and Code Related Discussion for Electrical Contractors, Electricians, Inspectors, Instructors, Engineers and other related Professionals