The Electrical Contractor Network

ECN Electrical Forum
Discussion Forums for Electricians, Inspectors and Related Professionals

Books, Tools and Test Equipment for Electrical and Construction Trades

Register Now!

Register Now!

We want your input!

Featured:
   

2017 NEC and Related
2017 NEC
Now Available!

   
Recent Posts
Industrail Control Panel bonding per 409.108
by sparkyinak
Yesterday at 03:17 PM
Calling all Non-US members!! (Non-US only)
by aussie240
12/07/16 02:39 AM
Photo Upload Tutorial
by DanK
12/06/16 11:35 PM
Sprinklered equipment 26-008
by bigpapa
12/02/16 04:24 PM
On Delay Relay with Auto Reset
by Potseal
12/01/16 09:59 AM
New in the Gallery:
12.5A through 0.75mm▓ flex (just out of curiosity)
Shout Box

Top Posters (30 Days)
gfretwell 13
HotLine1 9
sparkyinak 8
Texas_Ranger 8
Potseal 6
Who's Online
0 registered (), 208 Guests and 6 Spiders online.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Page 1 of 3 1 2 3 >
Topic Options
Rate This Topic
#79775 - 01/25/02 03:03 PM Must Replace Wiring?
Bill Addiss Offline
Member

Registered: 10/07/00
Posts: 4196
Loc: NY, USA
Has anyone heard of situations where wiring must be replaced when it is exposed during a Renovation?

Bill

Top
2014 / 2011 NEC & Related Books and Study Guides
#79776 - 01/25/02 03:49 PM Re: Must Replace Wiring?
sparky Offline
Member

Registered: 10/18/00
Posts: 5545
In as 'required', and not simply desired?

Not up here

Top
#79777 - 01/25/02 04:10 PM Re: Must Replace Wiring?
electure Offline

Member

Registered: 12/24/00
Posts: 4226
Loc: Fullerton, CA USA
That's one of the things that's been so tough here because of the Municipal Codes or Inspectors.
You never know what they'll ask for, or if it's actually part of their local Code.
Some will just point and say "Fix that".
Yes, I've seen that, and never challenged it. I asked them to write it up so that I could have some teeth to my proposal to the GC or owner for the Extra to repair/update it.

Top
#79778 - 01/25/02 04:24 PM Re: Must Replace Wiring?
Bill Addiss Offline
Member

Registered: 10/07/00
Posts: 4196
Loc: NY, USA
I've heard that it is in our State adopted building code that when substandard wiring is exposed as part of a renovation it must be replaced.

Example; renovating a house without replacing Aluminum wiring would be a violation. I wonder if that would also apply to 60C and 75C wiring?

Bill

Top
#79779 - 01/25/02 04:49 PM Re: Must Replace Wiring?
electure Offline

Member

Registered: 12/24/00
Posts: 4226
Loc: Fullerton, CA USA
Isn't type TW 60┬░ wire still allowed?
(or old style type NM)?
Yeah, right electure you old *&^%, like you could buy some of it without a special order.

Top
#79780 - 01/25/02 05:18 PM Re: Must Replace Wiring?
Bill Addiss Offline
Member

Registered: 10/07/00
Posts: 4196
Loc: NY, USA
electure,

The person I heard it from mentioned the word sub-standard. I was thinking of the old NM cables, Bx and such with less than 90C temp rating, because they would be less than todays' standard.

The subject came up referring to someone that renovated an entire house but did not replace the Aluminum wiring (which was totally exposed)

Bill

[This message has been edited by Bill Addiss (edited 01-25-2002).]

Top
#79781 - 01/25/02 08:25 PM Re: Must Replace Wiring?
George Corron Offline
Member

Registered: 05/16/01
Posts: 728
Loc: Lorton, Va USA
Bill,
I can't imagine what kind of "intelligent" individual would expose aluminum wiring and not replace it. Is this a fire repair company?
In VA if sub-standard is exposed, it will be replaced and the area brought up to current code. Usually that involves GFCI's etc, but that al statement really floors me.

Top
#79782 - 01/26/02 04:03 AM Re: Must Replace Wiring?
Electricmanscott Offline
Member

Registered: 01/12/02
Posts: 1478
Loc: Holden, MA USA
From my experience if the walls are open you must at least add receptacles to bring to code. If the house was any more than about fifteen years old I would insist that we rip out old wiring and start fresh.

Top
#79783 - 01/26/02 06:04 AM Re: Must Replace Wiring?
Bill Addiss Offline
Member

Registered: 10/07/00
Posts: 4196
Loc: NY, USA
George,

I don't know any details on that job. I was hoping that the person I heard it from would join us and add more details. I would also like to see the actual reference in the code.

I have always been under the impression that replacement was up to the individual. To hear that it is mandated somewhere is a bit of a surprise to me.

Emscott,

I think that is a good rule to go by, but is it enforceable? My observations are that existing wiring (if it met code at the time of installation) has been allowed to remain if untouched during a renovation. I've been through many Kitchen remodels fighting to install required outlets, but the "I'm not going to use it" attitude and the fact that they have to pay for the special countertop and multipurpose wonder cabinets has won more times than it should've.

Bill

Top
#79784 - 01/26/02 08:30 AM Re: Must Replace Wiring?
Joe Tedesco Offline
Member

Registered: 10/07/00
Posts: 3325
Loc: Boston, Massachusetts USA
Bill:

Look here at a new 2002 NEC item in Article 80, although not mandatory, it does give valuable information.

I would recommend that a proposal be drafted to cover this in the full body of the code in Article 110:

"80.9 Application.

(A) New Installations. This Code applies to new installations. Buildings with construction permits dated after adoption of this Code shall comply with its requirements.

(B) Existing Installations. Existing electrical installations that do not comply with the provisions of this Code shall be permitted to be continued in use unless the authority having jurisdiction determines that the lack of conformity with this Code presents an imminent danger to occupants. Where changes are required for correction of hazards, a reasonable amount of time shall be given for compliance, depending on the degree of the hazard."

Frank: You agree? Any other AHJ's here? Come aboard, the posts are going to get hotter and hotter during the next few months because we only have until November to send in proposals for the 2005 NEC, and there is a deadline just look at the rear pages in the new 2002 NEC.
_________________________
Joe Tedesco, NEC Consultant

Top
Page 1 of 3 1 2 3 >



ECN Electrical Forums - sponsored by Electrical Contractor Network - Electrical and Code Related Discussion for Electrical Contractors, Electricians, Inspectors, Instructors, Engineers and other related Professionals