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#78231 - 08/30/01 04:53 AM 680-25 c&d
Steve Miller Offline
Member

Registered: 08/30/01
Posts: 322
Loc: Loudoun Cty, VA
For several years and in several jurisdictions we have been installing residential hot tubs on decks as follows (all have passed inspections):
6-3 RX thru the house to a panel mounted on the exterior wall (as per 680-25c Ex3). From that point it's piped with the insulated ground.
Last week one of the jurisdictions (where we had never installed one) said that under 680-25d the tub contained a panel board and needed the insulated ground all the way back to the main service (i.e. pipe the whole thing). We maintained that the tub is a factory sealed and approved unit and 680-25c Ex3 could be applied. Well it wasn't worth the fight so we did it his way but the customer paid a premium. What's your opinion?

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#78232 - 08/30/01 06:57 AM Re: 680-25 c&d
sparky66wv Offline
Member

Registered: 11/17/00
Posts: 2339
Loc: West Virginia
Dude! I love your greatest hits album! Especially "Swing Town"...

Uh... Why is everybody laughing at me?!?!?!?



Steve, forgive me, I'm sure you get hassled about your name every day... and I'm sure I wasn't very original about it...

That's how I install 'em, NM to the disco, then PVC and THWN to the tub... The AHJ has the last word though...
_________________________
-Virgil
Residential/Commercial Inspector
5 Star Inspections
Member IAEI

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#78233 - 08/30/01 03:42 PM Re: 680-25 c&d
electure Offline

Member

Registered: 12/24/00
Posts: 4226
Loc: Fullerton, CA USA
Since it's a listed factory unit, a call to the manufacturer might have been able to shed some light. If you use there units regularly, give it a try.

"Famous Names"
BTW, One of the owners of the company I work for, although no relation to the other, is named...Mike Holt. On one job I worked on, the GC's super was named Neil Young, and the owner's rep was named Jim Nabors..for real

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#78234 - 08/30/01 05:40 PM Re: 680-25 c&d
Redsy Offline
Member

Registered: 03/28/01
Posts: 2138
Loc: Bucks County PA
I brought this up a few times(see previous topics).
I use ENT with insulated ground instead of NM. Heres why--
680-12 requires disconnect.
680-25(d) requires panelboards and DISCONNECTS to have an insulated ground.
680-25(c) requires motors have an insulated ground, with permission for interior of single family dwellings to use NM (a chapter 3 wiring method).
680-25(d) does not include the permission for single family dwellings. Therefore, NM not allowed.

I have seen many NM installations. Apparently it's often accepted.

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#78235 - 08/30/01 06:26 PM Re: 680-25 c&d
sparky66wv Offline
Member

Registered: 11/17/00
Posts: 2339
Loc: West Virginia
The manager at Blue Grass Electric (my supplier) is Rob Lowe!

Steve,

I meant no harm, welcome to ECN...

Doh! You mean I goofed again! Geez I'd like to get at least one hot tub install right...Man!

Thanks for straightening me out again, Redsy!

_________________________
-Virgil
Residential/Commercial Inspector
5 Star Inspections
Member IAEI

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#78236 - 08/30/01 07:36 PM Re: 680-25 c&d
Redsy Offline
Member

Registered: 03/28/01
Posts: 2138
Loc: Bucks County PA
 Quote:
Originally posted by sparky66wv:
Thanks for straightening me out again, Redsy!


I'm not so sure. I may be a fool for doing it my way. It's just the way I see it. (Can't see it any other way, though)

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#78237 - 08/30/01 10:12 PM Re: 680-25 c&d
Bill Addiss Offline
Member

Registered: 10/07/00
Posts: 4196
Loc: NY, USA
Steve M,

Welcome to the board !

I've always done it as you describe 6/3 wGr to a Disconnect (Panel w/ GFCI breaker) and then pipe to Tub. Never had any reason to believe otherwise.

Bill

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#78238 - 08/31/01 02:30 AM Re: 680-25 c&d
sparky Offline
Member

Registered: 10/18/00
Posts: 5545
As i understand it, the theory behind insulated & isolated per 680 is in protection from other proximal ground faults crossing over to the pool ECG.

Steve, your post brings more conjecture here

welcome aboard!

Virgil, how'd you do that smiley guy???

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#78239 - 08/31/01 05:39 AM Re: 680-25 c&d
Bill Addiss Offline
Member

Registered: 10/07/00
Posts: 4196
Loc: NY, USA
Sparky,

Don't have that one?
Maybe We could import him somehow.

Bill

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#78240 - 08/31/01 09:23 AM Re: 680-25 c&d
sparky66wv Offline
Member

Registered: 11/17/00
Posts: 2339
Loc: West Virginia
It's about time someone noticed!!!

I saved "coolie" and "biggrin" and put them in Paint , copied pasted and swore a little and made a coolgrin.jpg...

There's a coolgringrey.jpg for the darker backgrounds, they're both here at my site's addy, but it can be a pain to type!
http://www.kellyelectric.electrical-contractor.net/photos/coolgrin.jpg =
http://www.kellyelectric.electrical-contractor.net/photos/coolgringrey.jpg =

[This message has been edited by sparky66wv (edited 08-31-2001).]
_________________________
-Virgil
Residential/Commercial Inspector
5 Star Inspections
Member IAEI

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