The Electrical Contractor Network

ECN Electrical Forum
Discussion Forums for Electricians, Inspectors and Related Professionals

Books, Tools and Test Equipment for Electrical and Construction Trades

Register Now!

Register Now!

We want your input!

Featured:
   

2017 NEC and Related
2017 NEC
Now Available!

   
Recent Posts
Sprinklered equipment 26-008
by bigpapa
Yesterday at 04:24 PM
On Delay Relay with Auto Reset
by Potseal
12/01/16 09:59 AM
Wow, that was close!
by jraef
11/28/16 07:06 PM
Earthquake in New Zeeland
by RODALCO
11/27/16 11:25 PM
Calling all Non-US members!! (Non-US only)
by Tjia1981
11/27/16 06:33 AM
New in the Gallery:
12.5A through 0.75mm˛ flex (just out of curiosity)
Shout Box

Top Posters (30 Days)
gfretwell 15
HotLine1 10
Trumpy 8
Texas_Ranger 8
sparkyinak 7
Who's Online
1 registered (gfretwell), 218 Guests and 4 Spiders online.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Topic Options
Rate This Topic
#74683 - 01/31/07 08:03 PM New Panel & Full
JoeMed Offline
Member

Registered: 03/17/05
Posts: 16
Loc: Chino Valley Az. 86323
New Panel and New Home (Condo). The Panel is 20 positions and no remaining openings.
Is there a requirement about only 80% fill or have some openings for additional circuits??
Could not find it in the NEC.

I know it is not a good installation, but is there a code violation?

Thanks in advance

Joe

Top
Work Gear for Electricians and the Trades

Work Gear for Electricians and the Trades
Work Gear for Electricians and the Trades
Arc Flash Clothing, Gloves, KneePads, Tool Belts, Pouches, Tool Carriers, etc. etc....

#74684 - 01/31/07 08:06 PM Re: New Panel & Full
BigB Offline
Member

Registered: 03/31/04
Posts: 727
Loc: Tucson, AZ USA
No. But maybe it is a 20/30 or a 20/40? Putting in some twins would free up some space.

Top
#74685 - 01/31/07 08:11 PM Re: New Panel & Full
DougW Offline
Member

Registered: 06/08/03
Posts: 1083
Loc: North Chicago, IL
Many AHJ's around here have a "20% Vacancy" requirement, but it is all "inspector discretion" or spelled out in the local addendums.

Top
#74686 - 01/31/07 08:14 PM Re: New Panel & Full
JoeMed Offline
Member

Registered: 03/17/05
Posts: 16
Loc: Chino Valley Az. 86323
Thanks for the reply.

yes, this was already done, and there is probably room for additional twin breakers.
But I thought there should be openings in a new install.

Joe

Top
#74687 - 01/31/07 08:16 PM Re: New Panel & Full
JoeMed Offline
Member

Registered: 03/17/05
Posts: 16
Loc: Chino Valley Az. 86323
"Many AHJ's around here have a "20% Vacancy" requirement, but it is all "inspector discretion" or spelled out in the local addendums."

This was the case in Chicago, but not in Arizona

Top
#74688 - 02/01/07 06:57 AM Re: New Panel & Full
ShockMe77 Offline
Member

Registered: 06/11/05
Posts: 823
Loc: Rahway, New Jersey
Just make sure the panel is rated for twin breakers before putting them in there. Not all panels are rated for twin breakers. The panel legend will indicate if it is permissable or not.

Good luck.

Top
#74689 - 02/01/07 05:22 PM Re: New Panel & Full
gfretwell Online   content

Member

Registered: 07/20/04
Posts: 9045
Loc: Estero,Fl,usa
There may be some local guidelines about future expandibility but that is not in the scope of the code. 90.1(B) says "Compliance therewith and proper maintenance will result in an installation that is essentially free from hazard but not necessarily efficient, convenient, or adequate for good service or future expansion of electrical use."
_________________________
Greg Fretwell

Top
#74690 - 02/01/07 05:26 PM Re: New Panel & Full
Tiger Offline
Member

Registered: 05/04/05
Posts: 714
Loc: Crystal Lake, IL USA
DougW,

That's a new and absurd one I haven't heard before. What towns?

Dave

Top
#74691 - 02/01/07 08:10 PM Re: New Panel & Full
DougW Offline
Member

Registered: 06/08/03
Posts: 1083
Loc: North Chicago, IL
IIRC a few - Gurnee and Zion come to mind (poss. also Northbrook and Des Plaines).

As an example - Highland Park:
 Quote:
Article 90 - Introduction (1) Section 90-8 (c) shall be added to read as follows: 172-1
90-8. (c) - Wiring Planning. In new construction, for future expansion, a minimum of ten percent (10%) of the available spaces in a panel shall be provided as spares or blank.

Top
#74692 - 02/01/07 08:11 PM Re: New Panel & Full
DougW Offline
Member

Registered: 06/08/03
Posts: 1083
Loc: North Chicago, IL
IIRC a few - (poss. also Northbrook and Des Plaines).

As an example - Highland Park:
 Quote:
Article 90 - Introduction (1) Section 90-8 (c) shall be added to read as follows: 172-1
90-8. (c) - Wiring Planning. In new construction, for future expansion, a minimum of ten percent (10%) of the available spaces in a panel shall be provided as spares or blank.


Gurnee:

 Quote:
Section 230.23(a): At this end of this subsection, the following shall be added: "All residential service revisions shall be a minimum 100 amp with twenty (20) circuit openings and have a main circuit breaker. The service entrance conductors must be a minimum of three (3) #3 copper wire and be installed in a minimum of not less than one and one-quarter inch (1-1/4") conduit. The panel must have 10% of spare space at final inspection.


They have a 15% minimum for commercial, retail, and industrial panels.



[This message has been edited by DougW (edited 02-01-2007).]

Top



ECN Electrical Forums - sponsored by Electrical Contractor Network - Electrical and Code Related Discussion for Electrical Contractors, Electricians, Inspectors, Instructors, Engineers and other related Professionals