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#74471 - 01/23/07 07:29 AM bath GFCI
NJI Offline
Member
Registered: 07/14/05
Posts: 33
Loc: Oneonta, NY USA
well.. it takes alot of wind out of your sail to admit defeat. but here I am.
I put a bathroom exhaust sytem in a home. the one that picks up several bathrooms and then exits out a vent in the attic. The problem i have it this: I usually wire my bathrooms on a single 20 amp Gfci circuit. lights recepticles.. all. but this exhaust fan was triping the gfci. soooo.. i put in GFCI recepticles and eliminated the breaker. the only kicker is that the lights in the bath are now " un protected " including the fan. code gave me my final sticker but wants the lights protected. i can't find in the code a single article for putting lights on a GFCI circuit. looking for a loop hole here. i need to call NFPA later today and ask i guess... theres only a small section of 210 that deals with this. am i missing something?

i've been through the fan and found no loose connections or reasons for it to be triping the GFCI.

to take it back to the supply house will take alot of non paid time.
_________________________
I have worked as an apprentice and on to a journeyman in a general construction company. 90% of what I do is residential. I have an associats degree in electrical technology. I have started my own buisness this year and am with out the help of other electricians. this is why i find this site so helpful.
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#74472 - 01/23/07 09:06 AM Re: bath GFCI
macmikeman Offline
Member
Registered: 07/16/02
Posts: 717
Loc: Honolulu, Hawaii
Putting aside the possibility of any local ammendments, there is no code that requires the lights in a bathroom to be gfi protected. If your bath fans are above the shower, and if they have a requirement in the installation directions or ul listing to be gfi protected, then those need to go on a gfi. Strange enough, you can put a wp sconce into a shower and not have it gfi protected, if you are a risk taker, and still be code compliant.
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#74473 - 01/23/07 09:20 AM Re: bath GFCI
girl germs Offline
Member
Registered: 11/20/06
Posts: 26
Loc: Victoria, BC, Canada
Can you leave the breaker on the circuit and just have the lights & fan tie in BEFORE the GFCI?

I hate to make more work for you, but... Short of any other solution, why not just put lights and fan on one circuit, and receptacles on another?

The motor is an inductive load, and especially if it is a larger fan motor it's pretty common to get nuisance tripping of a GFCI from that. If it's just a small unit, maybe get that motor tested. But either way it seems to be tripping your circuit, so might as well just bite the bullet and re-route some wire.

Also GFCI's don't protect from overcurrent, only ground fault, so it's not really adequate for doing away with the breaker.

Just my take on it, but I'm pretty new to this so maybe someone else will have an ingenious plan.

[This message has been edited by girl germs (edited 01-23-2007).]
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#74474 - 01/23/07 09:49 AM Re: bath GFCI
gfretwell Offline


Member
Registered: 07/20/04
Posts: 9039
Loc: Estero,Fl,usa
There is no real reason for a motor to trip a GFCI unless it has a ground fault.
Check your neutral connections and be sure one is not shorting to ground.
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Greg Fretwell
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#74475 - 01/23/07 10:44 AM Re: bath GFCI
ghost307 Offline
Member
Registered: 05/09/05
Posts: 900
Loc: Chicago Illinois USA
There are a few jurisdictions that require GFCI protection of just about everything in the bathroom, but it's not in NEC.
However, NEC requires that the circuit feeding the GFCI in the bathroom have that as its only load. You can feed more than 1 bathroom GFCI from a single circuit, but not the lights, fan or other loads.
Check out 210.11(C)(3).
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Ghost307
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#74476 - 01/23/07 04:26 PM Re: bath GFCI
Grover Offline
Member
Registered: 01/19/05
Posts: 109
Loc: Sebago, ME, USA
Hmmmm...

My handbook says (not an exact quote) regarding 210.11(C)(3) that 'a 20A circuit is required for bathroom(s) with no other outlets. It is permitted to have this circuit supply more than one bathroom. However, If the circuit supplies the required receptacle outlet in only one bathroom, it is allowed to also supply lighting and an exhaust fan in the bathroom provided that the lighting and fan load does not exceed 210.23(A)(2), and the recptacle must comply with 210.8(A)(1).'

210.23(A)(2) relates to cord and plug vs. direct connected loads, and 210.8(A)(1) defines a bathroom and the difference between receptacles and fan/lights.

I do disagree with the example cited in the Handbook - a washing machine in a bathroom is not, in normal use, easily moved from one location to another, and therefor is not required to be conected via the GFI. 210.8 Exception No. 2 to (2).

This raises the question about a "separating door" vs. "entire area".

Would love to have some comments...

Grov
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#74477 - 01/23/07 07:04 PM Re: bath GFCI
NJI Offline
Member
Registered: 07/14/05
Posts: 33
Loc: Oneonta, NY USA
thanks for the replys on this. this house is fairly high end. this is the final, as far as inspections go. the only code governing this is the NEC and the AHJ. just out of the city. the fan seems fine as far as the connections. although i was hoping to find something to help me out like a loose screw or a little pot mark in a wire.. but no luck. i think i'll feed the whole sconce light in the shower thing to the AHJ tomarrow. see if he finds it funny. we've been good friends for a number of years now, he has the whole hands off aproach to this. he said his part... he moved on
_________________________
I have worked as an apprentice and on to a journeyman in a general construction company. 90% of what I do is residential. I have an associats degree in electrical technology. I have started my own buisness this year and am with out the help of other electricians. this is why i find this site so helpful.
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#74478 - 01/23/07 07:50 PM Re: bath GFCI
macmikeman Offline
Member
Registered: 07/16/02
Posts: 717
Loc: Honolulu, Hawaii
quote"There are a few jurisdictions that require GFCI protection of just about everything in the bathroom, but it's not in NEC.
However, NEC requires that the circuit feeding the GFCI in the bathroom have that as its only load. You can feed more than 1 bathroom GFCI from a single circuit, but not the lights, fan or other loads.
Check out 210.11(C)(3)."

And check out the exception from that same article. The exception allows other equipment within the same bathroom
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#74479 - 01/23/07 08:36 PM Re: bath GFCI
WESTUPLACE Offline
Member
Registered: 03/29/04
Posts: 251
Loc: Kingwood, TX USA
Did I read this correctly? A single fan for several bathrooms? (They make them) If so, how did you switch them? Three way/ 4 Way switches? If so did yo get your power from a ckt. on one bathroom? Did the neutral also come from that ckt and not share it in any other bath? If not, this is why the GFI tripped. Robert
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