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#73005 - 12/15/06 05:52 AM CA- Certification Enforcement Idea
electure Offline

Member

Registered: 12/24/00
Posts: 4226
Loc: Fullerton, CA USA
The deadline has been extended as long as the law allows. There are 2 wks left until the no-more-rabbits-in-their-hat deadline.
So far, there's nobody willing to enforce the law.

The statistics speak for themselves:

Electrician certification program current counts at December 7 , 2006

Applications to date 55,114
Exams authorized to date 56,868

Exams taken to date 39,439
Exams passed to date 28,396
Exams failed to date: 11,043
This, with 23 days left for compliance.

That's at least 15,675 applicants that are going to forfeit their application fees of $175 apiece by not taking the exam, for a total of $2,743,125.00

I hereby offer to drive all around CA in a Caped Crusader costume enforcing it rapidly and aggresively for the period of one year in exchange for the leftover money. I'll even pay for my own gas. If e57 wants to join me, we can split the money, and he can wear his Jack in the Box head.

It's easy pickin's
A couple of help wanted ads:

ELECTRICIAN needed. Mid level position. Min 2 yrs exp.
ELECTRICIAN Growing Co. Min 1 yr exp.

After all, the whole certification thing's been straight out of a cartoon / comic book for 7 years already. Why stop now?




[This message has been edited by electure (edited 12-15-2006).]

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#73006 - 12/15/06 07:52 AM Re: CA- Certification Enforcement Idea
Lostazhell Offline
Member

Registered: 02/21/04
Posts: 1248
Loc: Bakersfield, CA (Originally Or...
I wanna bust people for $2M+ a year too!!!

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#73007 - 12/15/06 10:57 AM Re: CA- Certification Enforcement Idea
Zapped Offline
Member

Registered: 10/01/02
Posts: 481
Loc: Huntington Beach, CA, USA
Split $2+mil? I'll even wear the tights!

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#73008 - 12/15/06 11:59 AM Re: CA- Certification Enforcement Idea
LK Offline

Member

Registered: 01/21/03
Posts: 1721
Loc: New Jersey
Your not alone, here in Jersey they have been waiting over 40 years for enforcement, If your in a ligit business, in this state, doing everything by the book, paying all your fees and taxes, your in trouble, Jersey is not a business frendly state to begin with, they have visions, of every mom and pop size business, having endless resources, so they spend the time, trying to raise money from existing compliant business, with new fees, new taxes, and strict enforcement of every dreamed up money making law.

Result, is larger corporations layoff workers, and just keep small office staff here and send the real money and jobs, to a state with common sense, the small mom and pops, like us are not able to keep up with the increased costs of doing business here, and with all that we have the added burden of no enforcement for the non compliant.

Tired stressed, and ready to pack it up.

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#73009 - 12/15/06 06:12 PM Re: CA- Certification Enforcement Idea
electure Offline

Member

Registered: 12/24/00
Posts: 4226
Loc: Fullerton, CA USA
As absurd as the idea may sound:

(Fat guys in Nomex leotards with Surf City beach towels pinned on their backs and a clown with a big round head issuing citations to offending contractors and electricians.)

It's the most workable plan I've heard of.
Nobody else seems to have any better ideas.

It's simple:
Establish a system of citations and fines.
A no brainer start for the crusaders and clown are the >15,000 that applied and never took the exam and their employers. With $2.7 mil as startup money, it could become self funding.

The crew would go through the State's EC list, and compare their employee records with the list of certified electricians and trainees.

Non compliant contractors would be cited and fined for each employee.
Compliant contractors would receive a coupon for free french fries or a small soda from the clown.
Repeat violations or failure to pay fine would result in the fine being Super-Sized.

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#73010 - 12/15/06 10:02 PM Re: CA- Certification Enforcement Idea
Scott35 Offline

Broom Pusher and
Member

Registered: 10/19/00
Posts: 2724
Loc: Anaheim, CA. USA
I don't understand the reluctance in taking the Exam, as it was one of the most easiest Exams I have dealt with!
And I am a Dumb-A**!
(sorry, that should read: "Iee are a dumb-a**!)

If you can use the Index, can apply simple Math, and know some basic Theories, the Exam is a Piece-Of-Cake!

You get 4 hours for 100 questions. Each question has Four (4) "Multiple Guess" answers to choose from.

The alloted time equates to 2 Minutes, 24 Seconds per question.

At the "1/2 Way Point" - or at the 51st question, you get a 5 Minute Break, which is not counted against the Examinee's time.

They supply you with a Pencil, Scratch Paper, a copy of the 1999 NEC, and a very basic Calculator (has no "1/X" function, which is much quicker and cleaner than doing the long version), but other than no "1/X" Function, the Calculator isn't too bad.

Scott35
_________________________
Scott " 35 " Thompson
Just Say NO To Green Eggs And Ham!

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#73011 - 12/16/06 11:38 AM Re: CA- Certification Enforcement Idea
Lostazhell Offline
Member

Registered: 02/21/04
Posts: 1248
Loc: Bakersfield, CA (Originally Or...
Scott,
The Fresno test center let me take a calculator with a 1/x key in... It just couldn't have any memory functions.

The way I did it, Go through the entire 100 questions and answer the ones you know (I know you throw your break away, but its not like you can go outside or anything anyways...)BOOKMARK the ones you don't know or even aren't sure of... This way you get all the easy "What does AHJ stand for?" type questions done with. Then start looking up the other questions with the index

Use the paperclips they give you to mark your conduit fill, insulation types, box fill, and other tables. the scrap paper I stuck in the code book where the index starts. Do all this before you start your time.

Just like Scott T said, it's not that hard if you've been in the trade and know how to use a codebook (BTW... they're getting ready to pull out an 02 based test soon. just FYI if you've been studying the 1999)

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#73012 - 12/17/06 08:17 AM Re: CA- Certification Enforcement Idea
e57 Offline
Member

Registered: 05/27/03
Posts: 2837
Loc: S.F.,CA USA
Scott, did you ever see the "COPS" episode Jack in the box commercial? Absolutely hillarious! I t can be found here: Funny
Are you picturing something like that? 'Where's your - beep - card punk?!'


What ticked me off about this law is that I saw little to nil on promoting it until AFTER the deadline for General Journeyman had passed. i.e. no letter of any official import until it was too late. That was bogus! Yes people knew about it, but unless you followed the law as I and a few people here did, it was not as if there was information smacking you in the face about it. As most of the people who did know about it got info word of mouth - there were a lot of mis-informed people out there. Still are! In fact I just came across a kid doing my oil change who was enroled in a 'non-approved school'. And half the guys at the supply house either don't know anything about this law or thing that it faded away somehow... The other half are wondering why they took the test....

I know many have thought I was a loon when I go into the conspiracy therory of it - but without some transparancey in its workings, thats all that was left to make sense of it. As IMO this law was not about safer electricians or for that matter people already in the trade getting 'certified' for the most part - Its POLITICS (always has been) and about control of the labor entering the trade for the most part now. And in the early days of it, it was looking to be a single entity. (The one with the most sway in the DIR) Five of the seven years of this law has been political battles between apprenticeship programs run by thier respective associations trying to make sure they still had a place in the market. And its the area of work that those trade organizations - if you can call them that - that this law is being enforced in RIGHT NOW. Public works projects... Now that those battles have been settled the law is just there as thorn in our sides who do other work.

But I guess that if anyone really wanted some enforcement - you could give these guys a call. Just don't interupt any coffee or donut breaks... Otherwise bored silly.

They already have a list of every C-10, and access to all the workmens comp records, and all of those who are certified. Who knows?


Jack's now on the ECN server

[This message has been edited by electure (edited 12-18-2006).]
_________________________
Mark Heller
"Well - I oughta....." -Jackie Gleason

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#73013 - 12/20/06 06:06 PM Re: CA- Certification Enforcement Idea
e57 Offline
Member

Registered: 05/27/03
Posts: 2837
Loc: S.F.,CA USA
It was pointed out to me that the DAS has some "Enforcement FAQ's" on thier site - maybe I just glazed over thinking 'SOS'.....

 Quote:
What agency checks the electricians and enforces the law on job sites?

The Statute does not currently provide for state enforcement. Note however, that many public works contracts include language requiring certified electricians. In this case the awarding body provides enforcement.

What agency checks the electricians and enforces the law on job sites?

The Statute does not currently provide for state enforcement. Note however, that many public works contracts include language requiring certified electricians. In this case the awarding body provides enforcement.

Who is penalized when an electrician is found working without a valid certification?

The individual who is not certified will be considered illegally working. By January 2007 all electricians working for a C10 contractor must be certified. If certification is not valid and there is fraud, please submit in writing the following information for review.

- Complainant's name
- Date of Complaint
- The name of the person they are complaining about
- Type of Complaint
- The complaint stated in detail
- If the Complainant knows who the person's employer is
- What classification is that person working as(General Electrician, Residential, Fire/Life Safety, VDV, NRLT)
- Address (if any)
- Phone # (if any)
- If the person is still employed


What is the penalty when an electrician is found working without a valid certification?

According to our Regulations 294.0 - any person who displays a certificate, or otherwise claims to be certified, who is not certified shall be prohibited from taking the test for certification for a period of five(5) years.

If there is fraud - The Chief DAS may for good cause suspend or revoke the person's certification if the person has committed gross negligence or fraud, or engaged in repeated acts of negligence during the performance of activities subject to the certification or if the person obtained certification through mistake, misrepresentation or fraud. - Regs. 293.0(b).



So what I gather from that is.... There is no agency to do it... Nothing new there But if you want to rat someone out - give us a yelp....
_________________________
Mark Heller
"Well - I oughta....." -Jackie Gleason

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#73014 - 12/20/06 06:36 PM Re: CA- Certification Enforcement Idea
electure Offline

Member

Registered: 12/24/00
Posts: 4226
Loc: Fullerton, CA USA
Sounds like someone has to misrepresent themself as being certified to be subject to a "rat out"

 Quote:
If certification is not valid and there is fraud, please submit in writing the following information for review.

-------------------------------------------------
And sadly, my fantastic lampoon of an idea won't fly either, as they're keeping all the money

3099.5. (a) The Electrician Certification Fund is hereby created as a special account in the State Treasury. Proceeds of the fund may be expended by the department, upon appropriation by the Legislature, for the costs of the Division of Apprenticeship Standards program to validate and certify electricians as provided by Section 3099, and shall not be used for any other purpose, such as overzealous, highly paid enforcement heros or clowns

(b) The fund shall consist of the fees collected pursuant to Section 3099.


Sorry, no big bucks. I guess I'd better return the capes, too.



[This message has been edited by electure (edited 12-20-2006).]

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