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#72615 - 12/05/06 06:07 PM OT: Seismic Anchorage for Generators
Scott35 Offline

Broom Pusher and
Member

Registered: 10/19/00
Posts: 2724
Loc: Anaheim, CA. USA
Hello all,

Got a non-electrical related question to toss out (it fits in the category of "Structural Engineering" instead of 'Electrical Engineering").

Re: Seismic Anchorage Details + Calculations for New Pad-Mounted 60 KW Backup Generator (Prime Mover = Diesel Motor).
Genset mounted on skid, which in-turn is Anchored to the new concrete pad.

Any suggestions where I might find some data / examples / formulas regarding this stuff?

I have been tossed the responsibility of resolving this newly aquired issue (2nd plancheck correction! just received the p/c report today!).

Seems like the Structural Engineer who compiled the Pad Concrete Calcs + Details, would also have some idea about this Seismic Anchorage Design - and would have submitted this data to me, in addition to the Concrete Calcs + Details SK Sheets...

BUT ...

Structural Engineer says "I Never Had To Provide _"THAT"_ Information Before!", and at the end of the Telephone conversation, I was "elected" the "Go-To Guy" to find someone else to compile this data (lucky me...)

So I am polling all my resources, to come up with this stuff, and have it done by Yesterday

Is this something I should have a Structural P.E. compile, or would it be safe + acceptable for me to compile and design (provided I obtain the necessary data)?

TIA!!!

Scott35
_________________________
Scott " 35 " Thompson
Just Say NO To Green Eggs And Ham!

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#72616 - 12/05/06 06:45 PM Re: OT: Seismic Anchorage for Generators
electure Offline

Member

Registered: 12/24/00
Posts: 4226
Loc: Fullerton, CA USA
You might want to see if your Errors and Omissions insurance covers you for doing it.

"I Never Had To Provide _"THAT"_ Information Before!"
What he forgot to put on the end of his sentence was "For Free".

He is the structural engineer. You are not.
Just My Opinion

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#72617 - 12/05/06 07:38 PM Re: OT: Seismic Anchorage for Generators
sandsnow Offline
Member

Registered: 09/21/04
Posts: 163
Loc: Irvine, CA, USA
Scott
The current building code in CA requires emergency equipment to be braced against seismic forces.
If this is optional standby, then there should not be a code requirement.

Another section requires wall mounted equipment over a certain weight to be braced.

These are the only two requirements I have been able to find. Including NO requirement for bracing of chain hung luminaires.
I think a lot of this seismic bracing "requirements" is a bluff or "just a good idea" type of requirement.

I don't have specific code sections at hand. I will try and get something later.
_________________________
Larry LeVoir
Inspector
City of Irvine, CA

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#72618 - 12/05/06 11:20 PM Re: OT: Seismic Anchorage for Generators
e57 Offline
Member

Registered: 05/27/03
Posts: 2837
Loc: S.F.,CA USA
Talk to these guys and have them spec the isolators for you, for your gen set and "Zone-4"...
http://www.acemount.com/

Have them give you any drawing/info/intructions they got - dope slap it to the "Structural Engineers" fore-head, and force him to do his "Approval" thing with that stamp. Maybe tell him to do his own work too...
http://www.acemount.com/DownLoadFile/630-83a170.pdf


[This message has been edited by e57 (edited 12-06-2006).]
_________________________
Mark Heller
"Well - I oughta....." -Jackie Gleason

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#72619 - 12/06/06 05:34 PM Re: OT: Seismic Anchorage for Generators
Nick Offline
Member

Registered: 08/13/01
Posts: 603
Loc: Riverside, CA
Scott, we use these guys allot.
http://www.caldyn.com/

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#72620 - 12/08/06 05:19 PM Re: OT: Seismic Anchorage for Generators
Scott35 Offline

Broom Pusher and
Member

Registered: 10/19/00
Posts: 2724
Loc: Anaheim, CA. USA
Everyone, Thank you very much for the replies!!!

Would like to address a few replies:

Scott (Electure):

 Quote:

You might want to see if your Errors and Omissions insurance covers you for doing it.


That is what makes me so nervous about having to do all this stuff!

I are eee-leck-trickle injunear, not struck-churral ingunear!

 Quote:

"I Never Had To Provide _"THAT"_ Information Before!"
What he forgot to put on the end of his sentence was "For Free".


I am thinking the same thing here too! Since this needs to be done "Yesterday", paying the guy would not have been an issue - provided the price is not completely insane (which brings up another scenario I will explain later).

 Quote:

He is the structural engineer. You are not.
Just My Opinion


Exactly what I say!
Not only do I have no clue whatsoever as to what I would be doing to achieve these results, but...:

I are eee-leck-trickle injunear, not struck-churral ingunear!

... Is my default statement!

Thank you Scott, for your reply.

Sandsnow:

 Quote:

The current building code in CA requires emergency equipment to be braced against seismic forces.
If this is optional standby, then there should not be a code requirement.


Bingo!!!

This Genset is an Optional Standby Generator - only to provide power for the IT room and Equipment, if power failure.

The racks have some minimal UPS equipment, which would carry the machines over until the Genny was up and running.

 Quote:

Another section requires wall mounted equipment over a certain weight to be braced.

These are the only two requirements I have been able to find. Including NO requirement for bracing of chain hung luminaires.
I think a lot of this seismic bracing "requirements" is a bluff or "just a good idea" type of requirement.

I don't have specific code sections at hand. I will try and get something later.


What's strange about the Corrections report, is there were no Code Articles quoted this time - as are normally done.

I am going to contact the Plans Examiner (Outsourced Firm) Monday, and discuss this, to verify if these Seismic Calcs are even necessary.

Thanks, Sandsnow, for the information.

Anyhow, as to the "Insane Price" thing:

Submitted an RFP to a Structural Engineer (turned out to be an Architectural Firm, must have a PE holding Structural guy on staff...).

Got back a Proposal for $2,500.00 to submit 2 stamped + signed 8-1/2" x 11" calculation SK Sheets, for me to attach to my Plan Page Template - and I submit to Plancheck.

Sounds kind of high (someone is high, and so is the price!), so now we are left in a total "Rock / Hard Place" situation!

Anyhow, I will check out the resources that E57 and Nick provided, and see what options are available.
Thanks to both E57 and Nick for the Links!

Once again, thanks to everyone for the assistance!
Will update you on Monday / Tuesday of next week, as to the outcome of everything.

Scott35
_________________________
Scott " 35 " Thompson
Just Say NO To Green Eggs And Ham!

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#72621 - 12/09/06 10:13 AM Re: OT: Seismic Anchorage for Generators
e57 Offline
Member

Registered: 05/27/03
Posts: 2837
Loc: S.F.,CA USA
I had to put in isolators and hold-downs on an optional stand-by once. But unfortunately I really could not tell you 'why' they required them as to any certain code. (Outside of the NEC things start to blur...) But from what little I understood, it was required by the building dept. due to the mounted equipments weight/height and proximity to the building? I believe the thinking was that it could fall or shift and take out a wall? It was a 500 kw next to an historical building. And the isolators were only there to protect the hold-downs as a pull-out stress and shear reduction.

This was back during my 'do as you're told' days.... Wish I could say more.

And I doubt this has any code relevance, but would aid in the general thinking.... http://www.seismic.ca.gov/pub/CSSC_2006-02_COG.pdf

And: (some code referances in these?) http://atcouncil.org/pdfs/bp6b.pdf
http://atcouncil.org/pdfs/bp6a.pdf


[This message has been edited by e57 (edited 12-09-2006).]
_________________________
Mark Heller
"Well - I oughta....." -Jackie Gleason

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