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#72559 - 12/03/06 12:20 PM "AFCI" And "Did Not Trip" videos
Elviscat Offline
Member

Registered: 08/13/05
Posts: 214
Loc: Seattle Washington USA
I saw these two videos on YOU Tube when watching that video in the Nostalgia forum I saw these two videos;
AFCI and Not working did not trip!
note that they both appear to have been uploaded by an old well-known ECN member.
In the video two of those Motel-Room hairdryers are shown being dropped into sinks full of water, now considering the two-wire cord, and the all plastic plumbing, why would doing this trip a GFI? there'd be no path to ground, until you stuck your hand in, right? and why is the other video titled "AFCI" no AFCI's are shown, is the poster trying too say that the hairdryer-in-the-sink would've tripped an AFCI? I didn't see any arcing, nor any other reason that an AFCI would've tripped.
comments anyone?
-Will A.K.A. Elviscat

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#72560 - 12/03/06 01:08 PM Re: "AFCI" And "Did Not Trip" videos
Lostazhell Offline
Member

Registered: 02/21/04
Posts: 1248
Loc: Bakersfield, CA (Originally Or...
I really hope that wasn't who I think it was doing that!

I had a customer once call me to their house saying that their GFCI was no good and proceeded to attempt the same thing in front of me! (as well as convince his local Home Depot to pull all their Leviton GFCI's off the shelf) I had to explain to him that in order for the GFCI to operate their needs to be a path someplace other than back to the receptacle (like metal plumbing, your body, etc...) I advised him that the manufacturer's instructions to simply use the test and reset buttons were the most reliable way for him to check these himself...

Stuff like this floating around the internet is only going to give Henry DIY a BAD idea, in thinking he's found a superior GFCI tester! Just wait until the GFCI really doesn't work and Joe Blow slips and lands his hands in the sink with the dryer

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#72561 - 12/03/06 02:33 PM Re: "AFCI" And "Did Not Trip" videos
Rewired Offline
Member

Registered: 01/01/06
Posts: 567
Loc: Hamilton, Ontario, Canada
Hmm, I thought the GFI I see would have tripped, at least when there was water flowing into the sink. Should the flow of water from the tap (second video, steady stream, no bubbles from the tap's aerator) not provided a "grounding" path regardless if the pipes are plastic or not?

A.D

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#72562 - 12/03/06 02:55 PM Re: "AFCI" And "Did Not Trip" videos
renosteinke Offline
Cat Servant
Member

Registered: 01/22/05
Posts: 5305
Loc: Blue Collar Country
Time for a little 'nit-picking.'

As we all knoe, there is no AFCI involved. Nor, matter of fact, is a GFI built into the hair dryer plug. I believe the correct name is "immersion curent limiting device" or some such. While, by every description I have read, this thing is supposed to operate like a GFI, it seems that the testing protocols are different somehow.

For the thing to work, water has to get into it. I notice that this did not happen in the first video until the switch was submerged. Even in the second video, water may not have actually reached any live parts.

OR - and this is certainly possible - the product had a sham device, and a counterfeit UL lable. When a foreign country supports the counterfeiting of such things, nothing short of a naval blocade will have much chance of making any difference.

Just, for the sake of argument, assume the device is legit. Having the element in the water is no sure path to current leakage; it wasn't so long ago that every coffee pot and deep fryer had immersed elements. Many still do.
Likewise, a bathroom tends to be a humid, corrosive place. I would not be surprised to find that the manufacturer had coated everything inside with a clear laquer. This would also serve as an insulator.

As I see it, things like GFI's ought to be treated like parachutes ... you do everything you can to make sure they're never needed!

(Then again, I'm old enought to remember when skydiving was dangerous .... and sex was safe! )

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#72563 - 12/03/06 03:05 PM Re: "AFCI" And "Did Not Trip" videos
Dave T Offline
Member

Registered: 01/22/05
Posts: 157
Loc: Waukesha, WI, USA
Possible all PVC plumbing with no ground path?
However, even though the water itself may not be a good conductor of current such as pure H2O, I find it very intriguing that there wouldn't be 5ma of current flowing through and path that does exist.

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#72564 - 12/03/06 03:06 PM Re: "AFCI" And "Did Not Trip" videos
iwire Offline
Moderator

Registered: 01/05/03
Posts: 4343
Loc: North Attleboro, MA USA
Regardless of what may or may not be built in to the hairdryer, the outlet that it is plugged into is required to be GFCI protected.

That said it should not operate without a ground fault path.
_________________________
Bob Badger
Construction & Maintenance Electrician
Massachusetts

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#72565 - 12/03/06 03:35 PM Re: "AFCI" And "Did Not Trip" videos
Trumpy Offline

Member

Registered: 07/05/02
Posts: 8540
Loc: SI,New Zealand
Randy,
I couldn't agree more, mate!.
Things like this being on a site like Youtube, can only be bad from an electrical safety point of view.
_________________________
Let's face it, these days if you're not young, you're old - Red Green grin

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#72566 - 12/03/06 11:09 PM Re: "AFCI" And "Did Not Trip" videos
e57 Offline
Member

Registered: 05/27/03
Posts: 2837
Loc: S.F.,CA USA
Maybe it's time to lobby the manufacturers for an "IFCI" (Idiot Fault Circuit Interuptor) or some sort of water sensor in the hair dryer....
_________________________
Mark Heller
"Well - I oughta....." -Jackie Gleason

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#72567 - 12/03/06 11:22 PM Re: "AFCI" And "Did Not Trip" videos
Elviscat Offline
Member

Registered: 08/13/05
Posts: 214
Loc: Seattle Washington USA
Rewired- I was taking a bit of a closer look at that video, and while the water's flowing the camera pans to the guy reseting the little GFI on the plug several times, and the red "on" light blinking, so I think the whatever-it-is on the cord for the dryer may have actually tripped while the water was flowing...

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#72568 - 12/04/06 05:48 AM Re: "AFCI" And "Did Not Trip" videos
Lostazhell Offline
Member

Registered: 02/21/04
Posts: 1248
Loc: Bakersfield, CA (Originally Or...
Elviscat, it looks more like whoever this is, is just pressing the red button making and breaking the internal contacts himself.... the point of doing that?

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