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#71882 - 11/09/06 05:40 PM Conduit/wiring.
ayrton Offline
Registered: 12/21/01
Posts: 205
Loc: Pa
I saw today above a drop ceiling, kcmil conductors tied up with rope, hung from bar joists. This is what was used instead of raceway. Through the ceiling down to the load centers, they used cable tray.
I find all sorts of articles on raceway and support, but cannot seem to find where specifically this would be illegal. It has to be illegal.
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#71883 - 11/09/06 07:31 PM Re: Conduit/wiring.
Almost Fried Offline
Registered: 09/04/06
Posts: 104
Loc: Madison County, Ark. USA
I like inspectors who carry flashlights and borrow ladders to look into nooks and crannies, how do you think the conscientious contractors who were underbid would feel about that wiring standard?
#71884 - 11/09/06 07:35 PM Re: Conduit/wiring.
ayrton Offline
Registered: 12/21/01
Posts: 205
Loc: Pa
I agree with your statement. However the question still stands. Where can I find it in the code?
I need to be ables to support that it is a illegal installation
#71885 - 11/09/06 08:09 PM Re: Conduit/wiring.
Celtic Offline
Registered: 02/26/05
Posts: 367
Loc: NJ
Start with 300.4
~~ CELTIC ~~
...-= NJ =-...
#71886 - 11/10/06 01:08 AM Re: Conduit/wiring.
e57 Offline
Registered: 05/27/03
Posts: 2837
Loc: S.F.,CA USA
Not sure about 330.4? What part?

But Article 392 should be some help.

I don't get it? Is it in cable tray or not? Or in partial cable tray as if it were not complete or removed? What is supported by rope?

Is it cable tray rated conductor insulation?
Mark Heller
"Well - I oughta....." -Jackie Gleason
#71887 - 11/10/06 03:24 AM Re: Conduit/wiring.
ayrton Offline
Registered: 12/21/01
Posts: 205
Loc: Pa
It is thhn 350kcmil wires, run in 2 sets of 4 (parallel) Two conduits come out of a disconnect and end a foot above the drop ceiling. The wire than is elevated 2-4ft above the ceiling tiles, and supported by rope (tied to the bar joist a couple ft higher) for about a 20ft span where there is than a cabletray, which runs down to a control center.
#71888 - 11/10/06 05:30 AM Re: Conduit/wiring.
Roger Offline
Registered: 05/18/02
Posts: 1779
Loc: N.C.
As e57 mentions, 392.6 will be applicable and then I would suggest looking at 394 through 398 also to see if any of the "shall's" or "shall not's" might apply.

Of course it sounds as though there are no Insulators so 398 goes away, and there is no Messenger so 396 goes away, and there are no "Knobs or Tubes" so 394 goes away.

#71889 - 11/10/06 08:43 AM Re: Conduit/wiring.
Trumpy Offline

Registered: 07/05/02
Posts: 8560
Loc: SI,New Zealand
I'm not sure of the Code side of an installation like this in US terms, but this has to be one of the roughest ideas I've heard of in a while.
Some "electricians" seem to forget the basic principles of electricity.
Now, what say that there is a decent fault on that circuit and the fault does not clear as it should?.
Anyone ever seen what in-adequately supported wires do under the influence of fault currents?.
I'd sure hate to be standing under that ceiling if a fault did occur, I'd imagine there would be a fair amount of wieght in a bundle like that.
Let's face it, these days if you're not young, you're old - Red Green grin
#71890 - 11/10/06 10:18 AM Re: Conduit/wiring.
Alan Nadon Offline
Registered: 03/10/05
Posts: 398
Loc: Elkhart, IN. USA
NEC 2002 Section 310.3 (A)
"Single conductors specified in Table 310.13 shall only be installed where part of a recognized wiring method of Chapter 3."

Above a ceiling, supported by rope is not a recognized wiring method in the Code.
If it was easy, anyone could do it.
#71891 - 11/10/06 10:49 AM Re: Conduit/wiring.
resqcapt19 Offline
Registered: 11/10/00
Posts: 2209
Loc: IL
You need to look at Article 396. It doesn't appear that the installation meets the required conditions.
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