ECN Electrical Forum - Discussion Forums for Electricians, Inspectors and Related Professionals

ECN Shout Chat
Top Posters(30 Days)
Admin 16
Recent Posts
fuse rejectors
by gfretwell. 03/23/17 01:12 PM
Another Forum Update
by Admin. 03/22/17 03:04 PM
Dining room plugs
by watersparkfalls. 03/21/17 10:31 PM
TRUE POWER
by jraef. 03/21/17 09:13 PM
WEG CFW-11 Frequency Inverter
by jraef. 03/21/17 08:50 PM
New in the Gallery:
SE cable question
Popular Topics(Views)
231,245 Are you busy
165,957 Re: Forum
160,481 Need opinion
Who's Online Now
0 registered members (), 57 guests, and 10 spiders.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Rate This Thread
Page 1 of 3 1 2 3
#69791 - 09/19/06 05:18 PM Oven hook-up (3 - 4wire)  
aldav53  Offline
Member
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 545
Chandler, AZ USA
This is old subject, but still can't figure out why on a new oven ckt, the manufacturer says you can use a 3 or 4 wire ckt. The oven controls must be 120v, which would mean you'd be tying the neutral to the ground at the oven (cause they are 4 wire) and the ground would then be part of the current carrying path back to the panel on a 3 wire ckt. Is this code for new ovens?


The Golden Rule - "The man with the gold makes the rule"

Work Gear for Electricians and the Trades

#69792 - 09/19/06 05:41 PM Re: Oven hook-up (3 - 4wire)  
iwire  Offline
Moderator
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 4,391
North Attleboro, MA USA
The code used to allow us to install 3 wire range and dyer outlets in certain locations.

Quote
which would mean you'd be tying the neutral to the ground at the oven


No the code did not allow that, what they did allow was using the neutral as the grounding means.

You say 'hey thats the same thing'. It's close to the same thing but it requires that the conductor be insulated.

Now the code will not let us install 3 wire range and dryer outlets. But existing ones can remain so when the customer gets a new range they need to buy a power cord that fits the outlet they have and they have to either bond or un-bond the neutral to frame.


Bob Badger
Construction & Maintenance Electrician
Massachusetts

#69793 - 09/19/06 05:50 PM Re: Oven hook-up (3 - 4wire)  
aldav53  Offline
Member
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 545
Chandler, AZ USA
Which one would it be, bond or not bond the neutral to the frame.
Thanks,


The Golden Rule - "The man with the gold makes the rule"

#69794 - 09/19/06 06:02 PM Re: Oven hook-up (3 - 4wire)  
iwire  Offline
Moderator
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 4,391
North Attleboro, MA USA
If the outlet is 3 wire you must bond the neutral to the frame of the appliance

This is done by a jumper at the point on the oven where the supply cord connects.

If it is a 4 wire outlet you want to make sure to lift the bond.


Bob Badger
Construction & Maintenance Electrician
Massachusetts

#69795 - 09/19/06 08:48 PM Re: Oven hook-up (3 - 4wire)  
Celtic  Offline
Member
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 361
NJ
Here's a tangent to this...

We recieved a delivery of electric ranges...the order stipulated that the ranges have the cords attached...the ranges have a 4-wire cord attached...the range itself has a the jumper still installed between N-G.
These ranges are being installed in new construction.

Who would say is responsible for checking that connection?
- The Appliance Co. where they were ordered from
- The GC that ordered them
- The EC that installs them
- Check the contract

[This message has been edited by Celtic (edited 09-19-2006).]


~~ CELTIC ~~
...-= NJ =-...

#69796 - 09/19/06 08:54 PM Re: Oven hook-up (3 - 4wire)  
ShockMe77  Offline
Member
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 821
Rahway, New Jersey
^^

I would say it's the responsibility of the EC.

Why?

Because you are the professional electrician who knows the importance of when to bond and when not to. And if we don't do it, who will? I like to think of as having some integrity.

That's my opinion. Perhaps the legality of it is something different all together.

[This message has been edited by ShockMe77 (edited 09-19-2006).]


#69797 - 09/19/06 09:54 PM Re: Oven hook-up (3 - 4wire)  
HLCbuild  Offline
Member
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 209
Herndon,Va USA
Cord or no cord, I'll bet there are installation instructions that tell you if you are using a 4-wire configuration then you must remove the jumper. So the installer is responsible to follow the manufacturers instructions.


#69798 - 09/19/06 11:05 PM Re: Oven hook-up (3 - 4wire)  
Celtic  Offline
Member
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 361
NJ
The installer being the EC who installs the appliance or the installer who installed the cord?


~~ CELTIC ~~
...-= NJ =-...

#69799 - 09/19/06 11:38 PM Re: Oven hook-up (3 - 4wire)  
ShockMe77  Offline
Member
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 821
Rahway, New Jersey
The electrical contractor.

If the cord comes with the appliance (wich it seldom does), the installer at the factory has NO IDEA if the range is going into a new home or into an existing home as a replacement. My experience has been to bring both type cords with me to save on those pesky trips to the suppy house.

Speaking of the supply house, I have to get to mine in about 7 hours so time to get some sleep! [Linked Image]


#69800 - 09/19/06 11:56 PM Re: Oven hook-up (3 - 4wire)  
gfretwell  Offline


Member
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 9,057
Estero,Fl,usa
They do ship with cords attached if you order them that way. I can't imagine a builder ever ordering anything but 4 wire corded appliances. There should never be a 3 wire range or dryer plug in new construction. If the jumper is installed it is a factory problem.


Greg Fretwell

Page 1 of 3 1 2 3

Member Spotlight
AllClear
AllClear
Belmond Iowa US
Posts: 44
Joined: August 2005
Show All Member Profiles 
Featured:

2017 NEC and Related
2017 NEC
Now Available!

Shout Box
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.6.0
Page Time: 0.018s Queries: 15 (0.004s) Memory: 0.8169 MB (Peak: 0.9920 MB) Zlib enabled. Server Time: 2017-03-23 22:07:00 UTC