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#67654 - 07/11/06 04:57 PM romex in the panel
vlad_tepish Offline
Member
Registered: 10/30/05
Posts: 39
Loc: Delavan,Wis,USA
how do "you" terminate your romex at the top of the panel?
I have been using 2,2" pvc pipes out the top of the panel, and stuffing the romex into them.this is how my boss told me he wanted it done.I have been wondering about raceway fill.how many conductors can you leagaly put into a piece of 2" pvc?
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#67655 - 07/11/06 05:02 PM Re: romex in the panel
iwire Offline
Moderator
Registered: 01/05/03
Posts: 4391
Loc: North Attleboro, MA USA
If your under the NEC that is a violation in all but certain circumstances.

You should be using fittings listed for the purpose.
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Bob Badger
Construction & Maintenance Electrician
Massachusetts
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#67656 - 07/11/06 05:07 PM Re: romex in the panel
vlad_tepish Offline
Member
Registered: 10/30/05
Posts: 39
Loc: Delavan,Wis,USA
under what circumstances is this ok?

the reason I ask is becouse I have stoped doing it this way and started straping the romex down to within three inches of the panel,then using romex conectors.

and now my inspector has said that if I dont use the pvc I will fail the inspection.
could this be a local thing or a new thing that the aria has adopted?


[This message has been edited by vlad_tepish (edited 07-11-2006).]

[This message has been edited by vlad_tepish (edited 07-11-2006).]
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Patrick
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#67657 - 07/11/06 05:50 PM Re: romex in the panel
gfretwell Offline


Member
Registered: 07/20/04
Posts: 9039
Loc: Estero,Fl,usa
If you can make sense of 312.5(C) exception you have the answer.

Quote:

Exception: Cables with entirely nonmetallic sheaths shall be permitted to enter the top of a surface-mounted enclosure through one or more nonflexible raceways not less than 450 mm (18 in.) or more than 3.0 m (10 ft) in length, provided all the following conditions are met:
(a) Each cable is fastened within 300 mm (12 in.), measured along the sheath, of the outer end of the raceway.
(b) The raceway extends directly above the enclosure and does not penetrate a structural ceiling.
(c) A fitting is provided on each end of the raceway to protect the cable(s) from abrasion and the fittings remain accessible after installation.
(d) The raceway is sealed or plugged at the outer end using approved means so as to prevent access to the enclosure through the raceway.
(e) The cable sheath is continuous through the raceway and extends into the enclosure beyond the fitting not less than 6 mm (1/4 in.).
(f) The raceway is fastened at its outer end and at other points in accordance with the applicable article.
(g) Where installed as conduit or tubing, the allowable cable fill does not exceed that permitted for complete conduit or tubing systems by Table 1 of Chapter 9 of this Code and all applicable notes thereto.
FPN:See Table 1 in Chapter 9, including Note 9, for allowable cable fill in circular raceways. See 310.15(B)(2)(a) for required ampacity reductions for multiple cables installed in a common raceway.


Handbook commentary
Quote:

The exception, which was added for the 1999 NEC, spells out the requirements that allow multiple nonmetallic cables such as Type NM, NMC, NMS, UF, SE, and USE to enter the top of a surface-mounted enclosure through a nonflexible raceway sleeve or nipple. These sleeves or nipples are permitted to be 18 in. to 10 ft in length. However, if the nipple length exceeds 24 in., ampacity adjustment factors as specified in 310.15(B)(2) apply.
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#67658 - 07/13/06 11:06 PM Re: romex in the panel
giddonah Offline
Member
Registered: 06/03/05
Posts: 49
Loc: UT
Rubbish. Every residential panel I've seen and worked on use nm connectors at the panel. I'd like to hear his reasoning, because I can't think of a reason to require this. Just because you fit the exception, it doesn't mean you have to do it.
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#67659 - 07/14/06 03:36 PM Re: romex in the panel
davemica Offline
Member
Registered: 10/26/05
Posts: 12
Loc: florida
I have wired a lot of concrete block houses like this where the panel was surface mounted in the garage and the conduit was used to protect the romex.
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#67660 - 07/14/06 04:02 PM Re: romex in the panel
steve ancient apprentice Offline
Member
Registered: 03/04/05
Posts: 169
Loc: west springfield,mass
Haveing done both commercial and residential work in the resi panels I have used the romexconnectors and stapled accordingly. In the commercial end we usually used conduit and ran mostly thhn. I have had feeders for the resi panels in a pipe but not the romex as you describe with them in a pvc pipe. Cant see how the inspector can fail you if you use the romex connectors. Why he said he would fail you if you dont do it his way is beyond me. Check the NEC Book point out panel installations and if you have to call the inspector on this one with your boss backing you up. Just be sure your right before you call him on this one. Also be sure to use the staples that can handle 2 romexes to be stapled together. Most inspectors wont fail you for useing the blue ones but he can call you on the blue staples.
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#67661 - 07/14/06 04:33 PM Re: romex in the panel
renosteinke Offline
Cat Servant
Member
Registered: 01/22/05
Posts: 5316
Loc: Blue Collar Country
I've almost always used a connector for each pair of cables.... then also installed a bit of pipe for future needs.

When I did a complete re-wire, I once ran a large pipe to a very large pull box in the attic. At that box, I had my connectors. I installed a ground buss in the box (with #8 to the panel), but continued the other wires to the panel without splicing.
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#67662 - 07/14/06 05:18 PM Re: romex in the panel
e57 Offline
Member
Registered: 05/27/03
Posts: 2876
Loc: S.F.,CA USA
"and now my inspector has said that if I dont use the pvc I will fail the inspection.
could this be a local thing or a new thing that the aria has adopted?"

Did you ask why? If it were exposed, he might be shooting for physical damage as the reason.

Quote:
334.15(B) Protection from Physical Damage. The cable shall be protected from physical damage where necessary by conduit, electrical metallic tubing, Schedule 80 PVC rigid nonmetallic conduit, pipe, guard strips, listed surface metal or nonmetallic raceway, or other means. Where passing through a floor, the cable shall be enclosed in rigid metal conduit, intermediate metal conduit, electrical metallic tubing, Schedule 80 PVC rigid nonmetallic conduit, listed surface metal or nonmetallic raceway, or other metal pipe extending at least 150 mm (6 in.) above the floor.


"where necessary", in the first sentance is subject to interpetation. (The second sentance is not.) My area considers any romex below 8' subject to damage. So often I pipe to a gutter above.
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Mark Heller
"Well - I oughta....." -Jackie Gleason
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#67663 - 07/15/06 07:37 PM Re: romex in the panel
HCE727 Offline
Member
Registered: 11/11/05
Posts: 186
Loc: Delaware County, PA, USA
Check out Photo's for Discussion - 200A Panel and Sewage Ejector, posted 3/14/06. This is how I do my panels.
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Hank
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