ECN Electrical Forum - Discussion Forums for Electricians, Inspectors and Related Professionals

ECN Shout Chat
Top Posters(30 Days)
Admin 19
Recent Posts
Anyone hiring inspectors?
by HotLine1. 03/27/17 08:03 AM
Old decora style outlets
by Admin. 03/25/17 11:40 AM
ESA Arc flash course
by TheShockDoctors. 03/24/17 10:15 AM
fuse rejectors
by HotLine1. 03/24/17 07:53 AM
Another Forum Update
by Admin. 03/22/17 03:04 PM
New in the Gallery:
SE cable question
Popular Topics(Views)
231,651 Are you busy
166,552 Re: Forum
160,731 Need opinion
Who's Online Now
0 registered members (), 84 guests, and 8 spiders.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Rate This Thread
#67555 - 07/09/06 03:55 PM Levels of finish and placement  
e57  Offline
Member
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 2,876
S.F.,CA USA
Anyone know if the electrical industry has any standards of finish and placement?

Like those for sheet-rock http://www.nationalgypsum.com/resources/techtalk/revisiting.html

Some of the higher end work around here you need to specifiy level 5 finish at opening for certain trim-less lighting and screw-less wall plates. Otherwise you get screwed on the end, by having lumps or gaps at the openings.

What I was wondering, is there any simular "level" standard for placement tolorances to be recognized when bidding?

Say: Level 'X' = Zero tolorance of placement level and square....

or Level 'I' = Just sling it in anywhere, in general location.

The reason I ask, is that often you can get plans with general notes that say little if anything about for instance outlet hieghts. While your boxing for outlets you could go about it a few different ways. Same height AFF at the point of the outlet, or level from highest point in the room. (As I often have to do with some of the "in-base board, or really close to base board type designs) Anyway, you need to bid for that type of accuacy in lay-out, and precise placement. Say your bidding against someone whos just gonna sling it in. Hows that qualified in the bid?

Some of the trimless lighting coming out recently requires 5 trade/step coordination for any decent finish at them.

Like these: http://www.rsalighting.com/common/literature/rsa/recessedAndSurface/rsa_quietceiling_cat.pdf

The trim is mudded in. And if it doesn't sit absolutely flush at the face, it looks like garbage. The square trims - if they are not perfectly straight, and 'squared' up to each other, they look crooked, and it looks like garbage! (FYI if you see these on a spec - bid high - real high!) The can will run ~$200 ea. (less trim) and about an =/> amount (EACH) to get it in correctly! They have the cheapest thinest brackets around, and without additional support thay are all over the place. You need to lock them in place with addition hanger-bars. Once the rock is on you need to get there before mud, and tweek the trim to the face of rock. Then they mud it, and the trim has a cheap cardboard protector that allows mud in the trim that needs to be cleaned out. And then when they paint the edge and the trim, the thickness of even a light coat of paint is enough to not let the trim go in right. PITA!

So how do you quanify yourself as privy to the hassle of this, against someone who bid at cost of can, and blue-book labor for your average run of the mill H1499?~


Mark Heller
"Well - I oughta....." -Jackie Gleason

Work Gear for Electricians and the Trades

#67556 - 07/09/06 04:49 PM Re: Levels of finish and placement  
renosteinke  Offline
Cat Servant
Member
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 5,316
Blue Collar Country
There is a trade group, the National Electrical Contractors' Assoociation (NECA) which has published a number of "National Electrical Installation Standards" (NEIS) that address this issue.


#67557 - 07/10/06 12:00 AM Re: Levels of finish and placement  
e57  Offline
Member
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 2,876
S.F.,CA USA
Hmmmm, just took a look at thier NECA-1-2000, Standard Practice for Good Workmanship in Electrical Contracting....


Not very impressive, not much in that document is going to do what this article about it describes, http://www.ecmweb.com/mag/electric_cleaning_installation_practices/index.html

It's a basic standard, what I'm talking about is the Apples and Oranges of finish. (Both are friut but different) And how to define that....

I often have to tell people under me on some jobs that "It more about placement and finish, than "Electrical" work." Especially when measuring and leveling something for the third time.... When I say it needs to be 8-3/16" off the floor - I mean 8-3/16" not 8-1/2" Level means "level", with a LEVEL not eye-balled.


Mark Heller
"Well - I oughta....." -Jackie Gleason

#67558 - 07/10/06 05:57 PM Re: Levels of finish and placement  
HotLine1  Offline


Member
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 6,803
Brick, NJ USA
E57:
"Standards"??? Sounds like a lack of good old 'pride-in-workmanship'!

I see quality of work that ranges from fanatical, to.......oh well, it works; to...'oh, the AHJ has to give me a punch list, I don't have time to check the whole job'

Some of the best are the raised panel moldings that have the duplex in the molding, along with the HVAC diffuser.

I'll come back to this thread to see IF any standards exist.

John


John


Member Spotlight
RH1
RH1
California
Posts: 22
Joined: August 2009
Show All Member Profiles 
Featured:

2017 NEC and Related
2017 NEC
Now Available!

Shout Box
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.6.0
Page Time: 0.012s Queries: 14 (0.003s) Memory: 0.7615 MB (Peak: 0.8909 MB) Zlib enabled. Server Time: 2017-03-28 19:44:59 UTC