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#67325 - 07/02/06 11:06 AM Stove Receptacle
DetroiterRob Offline
Member
Registered: 05/16/04
Posts: 33
Loc: Dearborn, MI, USA
Good Afternoon.

Hers a kinda wierd question for ya, i dont know if this is better here or in the NEC section, so ill try here first. I am currently working on a kitchen at my bosses hose and he has a 120/240v stove and the receptacle is screwed to the floor and the cable is brought up thru the bottom of it. My boss has some idea that when the work that I am responsible for is inspected the ahj will have a problem with the receptacle being on the floor, although i have not worked on it nor can i find anything in the code about a required height off the floor, any ideas on where to look for a min height? thanks for the help, Rob

[This message has been edited by DetroiterRob (edited 07-02-2006).]
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#67326 - 07/02/06 02:20 PM Re: Stove Receptacle
renosteinke Offline
Cat Servant
Member
Registered: 01/22/05
Posts: 5316
Loc: Blue Collar Country
There is no requirement that the receptacle be on the wall at all.... in a box, sitting atop the floor, is perfectly OK. And, since the receptacle is "atop" and not "in" the floor, it need not be a floor receptacle.

Now, I'm not saying that this arrangement makes me happy. Truth be known, there are very few stove installations that I am happy with. The situation is not made any better by the lack of space behind the stove! (After all, folks want the stove against the wall- not pushed out 3").

Two things to take care of: The cord and the box.
The box needs to be anchored, and not sliding around.
The wire supplying the box needs support and protection. If the wire is Romex, this means a proper fitting where it enters the box.
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#67327 - 07/02/06 02:21 PM Re: Stove Receptacle
e57 Offline
Member
Registered: 05/27/03
Posts: 2876
Loc: S.F.,CA USA
Is it horizontal face up? Could it count as a work surface?

Quote:
406.4(E) Receptacles in Countertops and Similar Work Surfaces in Dwelling Units. Receptacles shall not be installed in a face-up position in countertops or similar work surfaces.


Could the receptical be looked at as a means of disconnect, and not acessible? Or isolated? Or not accessible to wiring method? i.e. having to remove a finish to move the stove, or buried under it.

Quote:
422.33 Disconnection of Cord-and-Plug-Connected Appliances.
(A) Separable Connector or an Attachment Plug and Receptacle. For cord-and-plug-connected appliances, an accessible separable connector or an accessible plug and receptacle shall be permitted to serve as the disconnecting means. Where the separable connector or plug and receptacle are not accessible, cord-and-plug-connected appliances shall be provided with disconnecting means in accordance with 422.31.
(B) Connection at the Rear Base of a Range. For cord-and-plug-connected household electric ranges, an attachment plug and receptacle connection at the rear base of a range, if it is accessible from the front by removal of a drawer, shall be considered as meeting the intent of 422.33(A).


Here you go.... Is it subject to physical damage, and not listed for the purpose? The AHJ could look at mop water and dirt as a source of damage....

Quote:
314.27(C) Floor Boxes. Boxes listed specifically for this application shall be used for receptacles located in the floor.
Exception: Where the authority having jurisdiction judges them free from likely exposure to physical damage, moisture, and dirt, boxes located in elevated floors of show windows and similar locations shall be permitted to be other than those listed for floor applications. Receptacles and covers shall be listed as an assembly for this type of location.


Sorry thats all I got....
_________________________
Mark Heller
"Well - I oughta....." -Jackie Gleason
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#67328 - 07/02/06 02:21 PM Re: Stove Receptacle
BigJohn Offline
Member
Registered: 03/06/04
Posts: 391
Loc: Boston, MA
I don't know of anything in the NEC that prohibits a face-up range receptacle, and I've installed them that way and had them pass inspection.

406.4(E) goes out of the way to specifically prohibit mounting a receptacle face-up on a counter top, this would lead me to believe that it is generally allowed and only restricted in specific instances.

However, from a practical standpoint: I used to do apartment maintenance where many of the range receptacles were face-up on the floor. The surface of the receptacles tended to get completely coated with grease and dirt and dust. If the plug was ever removed, the receptacle would have to be taken apart and cleaned before the plug could be re-inserted.

-John
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#67329 - 07/02/06 02:34 PM Re: Stove Receptacle
e57 Offline
Member
Registered: 05/27/03
Posts: 2876
Loc: S.F.,CA USA
Another one.....

Quote:
406.8(2)(D) Protection for Floor Receptacles. Standpipes of floor receptacles shall allow floor-cleaning equipment to be operated without damage to receptacles.
_________________________
Mark Heller
"Well - I oughta....." -Jackie Gleason
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#67330 - 07/03/06 11:04 AM Re: Stove Receptacle
SteveFehr Offline
Member
Registered: 03/19/05
Posts: 1195
Loc: Chesapeake, VA
Quote:
406.4(E) Receptacles in Countertops and Similar Work Surfaces in Dwelling Units. Receptacles shall not be installed in a face-up position in countertops or similar work surfaces.
haha... Oh man, the difference a little context makes! I don't do much residential work and had always read this as "install on the wall with the ground-prong-up (EG 'smiley face' upside down)". Why would anyone even THINK of placing a receptacle face-up on a countertop?

As to the location of the receptacle- placement can be dependant on the stove. Some stoves have more or less space than others- you almost have to know what particular stove is going to be installed to make sure you put the receptacle in the right place. Considering the amount of grease and boiling water and all else that will be spilled off that stove in its lifetime, placing the receptacle on the floor sounds like a BAD idea, regardless of whether or not the code specifically prohibits it.

[This message has been edited by SteveFehr (edited 07-03-2006).]
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#67331 - 07/03/06 12:37 PM Re: Stove Receptacle
luckyshadow Offline
Member
Registered: 01/04/05
Posts: 305
Loc: Maryland USA
Come on People !!! Stop over engineering this !
We're talking about a stove in a persons house not a restaurant.
"A work surface " How much prepping do you do BEHIND your stove ?
Not accessible ? pull the drawer, out reach in and unplug it.
Protection from floor cleaning equipment ?
OK who here pulls their range out to run the floor buffer behind it ?
Grease and BOILING water ? I can't ever recall anyone spilling boiling water BEHIND the stove . on it ,in front of it , maybe down the side. I have pulled out my fair share of ranges and have never come across ones that are coated in grease. I have seen roaches, mouse crap , I even found a dead mouse once.
I have installed the outlets on the floor and will continue to do so. Have you ever paid attention to the design of the back of the stove ? You do not have a lot of room for that big range cord. I think there is an issue with protection of the cord. I did short mine out when sliding the range in.
I don't mean to be a jerk and point fingers at any one person and if I offended anyone I do apologize, but it seems that as professionals, we ( electricians) like to take any issue and " make" the code fit.
Sometimes we must remember to use common sense and not make a mountain out of an ant hill.
OK I'm stepping off the soap box and waiting for the back lash from my comments made here.
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#67332 - 07/03/06 12:44 PM Re: Stove Receptacle
iwire Offline
Moderator
Registered: 01/05/03
Posts: 4391
Loc: North Attleboro, MA USA
Quote:
OK I'm stepping off the soap box and waiting for the back lash from my comments made here.


I am not going to give you grief, I say screw the darn receptacle to the floor and move on.

Bob
_________________________
Bob Badger
Construction & Maintenance Electrician
Massachusetts
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#67333 - 07/03/06 04:14 PM Re: Stove Receptacle
e57 Offline
Member
Registered: 05/27/03
Posts: 2876
Loc: S.F.,CA USA
Who would want recepticals face up? You have no idea how many times I have been asked for just that in both residential and commercial over the last 15 years.....

Steve, luckyshadow.... Note the OP is being questioned by the boss as to why it might not pass, which is why I replied with questions as the premis to the codes posted, otherwise its fine, barring the AHJ not feeling the same way....

There is no min hieght, unless the ADA has a play.....

Where I am, a receptical behind or for that matter under it are not considered accessible unless it is clear that it complies with 422.33, or on wheels. (Seen on with a hatch in the oven for access...) Otherwise it goes in the cabinet adjacent. Right next to the gas shut off if any....

Neither mountain, or mole hill....

[This message has been edited by e57 (edited 07-03-2006).]
_________________________
Mark Heller
"Well - I oughta....." -Jackie Gleason
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#67334 - 07/03/06 08:48 PM Re: Stove Receptacle
DetroiterRob Offline
Member
Registered: 05/16/04
Posts: 33
Loc: Dearborn, MI, USA
thanks for the input, i did not find anything wrong with the installation personally, although when it was installed and the boss was putting his fridge back next to the stove he did crash the recep housing and is taped togther, dont worry ill be replacing it on wednesday...ill try and get some pics for amusement, i also have some pics of the mess i cleaned up today at the house from when he removed the wall the first time. also i believe that when i replace the box ill put it up onto the wall somewhat so it tucks into the back of the stove better, along with a peice of EMT to protect the romex. thanks for the help, rob
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