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#64693 - 04/12/06 12:42 PM Load Calculations
amelectric Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 04/12/06
Posts: 5
Loc: West Springfield, MA USA
Hey Everyone, Just a little background - I've been in business for myself for a little over a year and a half - I mainly do resedential work, some commercial and I have extensive industrial experience from working the mills. I'm in need of some advice - I recently looked at a 100 amp 120/240 VAC residential service. The homeowner is selling the house and the home inspector recommended a panel change do to extensive water damage inside the panel. When I looked at it the SE cable on the outside was all frayed and worn and the rust in the panel was corroding the breakers. The panel had 22 circuits in it but the house had a small kitchen in the basement with a range receptacle - no range, central A/C, electric hot water heater and a main range in the main kitchen. I had recemmended a 200 amp service upgrade to the homeowner but he didn't even want to change the 100 amp panel.(he's selling the house) He gave me the job and I changed out the panel with a 30 ciruit panel and changed out the meter socket and the SE cable. Apples for Apples - I made it a whole lot safer than it was. Well the AHJ wanted me to do a load calc. on it and said I should have upgraded it to a 200 amp. I did the calc. and I came up with 98 amps. but the homeowner dosen't want to spend the money to upgrade so I removed the line to the range in the basement area and freed up several other slots in the panel and the AHJ still has a problem with it. I can't force a 200 amp service on the customer and I can't afford to just put one in on my dime. Any advice from you veterans? He had said it had to be 80% of the load but I can't see a continuous load for more than three hours. The examples I had found had loads of 96 amps and recommended a 100 amp service. So I'm at a loss. This is the "job that won't go away".

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#64694 - 04/12/06 02:20 PM Re: Load Calculations
Bob Offline
Member

Registered: 02/05/02
Posts: 182
Loc: Mobile, AL, USA
You do the load caculations per 220. The service must be at least equal to
125% of the cont load plus 100% of the non-cont load. If that caculation comes up to 98 amps then 100 amps service is ok.
Why don't you list the loads in the house.

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#64695 - 04/12/06 03:22 PM Re: Load Calculations
George Offline
Member

Registered: 02/23/02
Posts: 380
amelectric ---

I expect they a monthly electric bill that shows monthly usage. That should be enough to determine the size of service needed.

(It sounds like a repair not new work. I would tell the inspector it was 100amps and it will be 100amps.

But you might ask the inspector what he wants removed from the panel for him to approve it.)

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#64696 - 04/12/06 04:54 PM Re: Load Calculations
earlydean Offline
Member

Registered: 12/22/03
Posts: 749
Loc: Griswold, CT, USA
Your AHJ is off base. He asked for calculations, you furnished calculations.
Did he have a problem with the math? Is there some way to get him to listen to reason? Is there someone to appeal his decision to?
_________________________
Earl

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#64697 - 04/12/06 06:20 PM Re: Load Calculations
LK Offline

Member

Registered: 01/21/03
Posts: 1721
Loc: New Jersey
Here is where you may be having the problem,
You said you removed the range, and feed to range, but did you remove the counter tops, and any other kitchen fixtures?, if not he is still counting it, and for good reason, inspector leaves, and they reconnect range.

The house was likley sold, as a kitchen being there, so when you add the range, you go over the 100.

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#64698 - 04/13/06 02:33 PM Re: Load Calculations
amelectric Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 04/12/06
Posts: 5
Loc: West Springfield, MA USA
Thanks everyone, LK, I think that is what he's thinking of. I did remove the line to the range but not the other kitchen circuits. But wouldn't that be a building inspector issue being that there's a kitchen in this house illegally? I still feel I did my part and made it as safe as possible.

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#64699 - 04/13/06 02:50 PM Re: Load Calculations
LK Offline

Member

Registered: 01/21/03
Posts: 1721
Loc: New Jersey
We had one like that not too long ago, seller called us, and told us, the electrician he had, din't know what he was doing, only to find out, he had illegal basement with a kitchen, so the first electrician, seen the problem, and bailed out, when we told him, all the work required to bring up to code, he said all you electricians are nuts, he was going to see the mayor, his lawyer, and i guess anyone that would listen, end result was, the finished basement, and kitchen was removed.

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#64700 - 04/13/06 03:07 PM Re: Load Calculations
amelectric Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 04/12/06
Posts: 5
Loc: West Springfield, MA USA
Wow! My concern is that the inspector will want me to do just that or upgrade the service but the person selling the house is against it and I can't afford to do this for nothing. From what I had just found out the inspector is contacting the power co. to tag the meter which tells me he had passed the inspection. Like I said "the job that won't go away".

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#64701 - 04/20/06 05:38 AM Re: Load Calculations
frank_n Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 03/08/06
Posts: 6
Loc: Metuchen, NJ 08840
What makes a kitchen 'legal' or 'illegal'?

Frank

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#64702 - 04/20/06 05:56 AM Re: Load Calculations
mahlere Offline
Member

Registered: 11/17/05
Posts: 514
Loc: New Jersey
permits, Frank.

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