The Electrical Contractor Network

ECN Electrical Forum
Discussion Forums for Electricians, Inspectors and Related Professionals

Books, Tools and Test Equipment for Electrical and Construction Trades

Register Now!

Register Now!

We want your input!

Featured:
   

2017 NEC and Related
2017 NEC
Now Available!

   
Recent Posts
Sprinklered equipment 26-008
by bigpapa
Today at 04:24 PM
On Delay Relay with Auto Reset
by Potseal
Yesterday at 09:59 AM
Wow, that was close!
by jraef
11/28/16 07:06 PM
Earthquake in New Zeeland
by RODALCO
11/27/16 11:25 PM
Calling all Non-US members!! (Non-US only)
by Tjia1981
11/27/16 06:33 AM
New in the Gallery:
12.5A through 0.75mm˛ flex (just out of curiosity)
Shout Box

Top Posters (30 Days)
gfretwell 15
HotLine1 10
Texas_Ranger 8
Trumpy 8
sparkyinak 7
Who's Online
0 registered (), 218 Guests and 4 Spiders online.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Page 1 of 2 1 2 >
Topic Options
Rate This Topic
#63545 - 03/20/06 02:34 PM I'm a little worried now.
GA76JW Offline
Member

Registered: 03/20/04
Posts: 195
Loc: Suwanee, GA USA
I moved into this house a year ago and new things pop up all the time. Just last week I opened up a box in our mudroom and I found a furry little helper draped across the hot and neutral of the keyless.

Today I break the pullchain on the light in our foyer and decide to fix it while I had some time. I open up the box and find 2 older black wires that are no longer in use with a newer 12/2 romex. There are also no wirenuts. ????Hmmm?

The hot and neutral wires were crimped together with ground crimps. The same used to crimp romex grounds together. Then it was wrapped many times with electrical tape. Well, I decided that this will not work and used wirenuts as I put it all back together.

It makes me wonder what I may not be seeing.
_________________________
"If common sense was common, everyone would have it"-not sure, someone here


Top
Work Gear for Electricians and the Trades

Work Gear for Electricians and the Trades
Work Gear for Electricians and the Trades
Arc Flash Clothing, Gloves, KneePads, Tool Belts, Pouches, Tool Carriers, etc. etc....

#63546 - 03/20/06 02:57 PM Re: I'm a little worried now.
DougW Offline
Member

Registered: 06/08/03
Posts: 1083
Loc: North Chicago, IL
That's one of the reasons I am very careful when doing partial remodels about including language like
"The warranty of work only applies to conductors, raceways, opr other equipment physically touched or herein indicated as being inspected by electrical contractor. There may be hazards present that were not observable during the work included in this invoice"

Also, I'll include "WARNING - HAZARD" language with a description on the invoice if I tell the property owner about a dangerous circumstance and he tells me "just leave it alone and fix what you're here for"

Top
#63547 - 03/20/06 04:01 PM Re: I'm a little worried now.
electricman2 Offline
Member

Registered: 11/09/03
Posts: 234
Loc: Thomasville, NC USA
I will say this and then run to dodge the rocks IMO the crimped and taped joint was better than any wirenut joint.
_________________________
John

Top
#63548 - 03/20/06 04:19 PM Re: I'm a little worried now.
renosteinke Offline
Cat Servant
Member

Registered: 01/22/05
Posts: 5305
Loc: Blue Collar Country
Well, E-Man....no need to duck yet!

While the crimps are used today only on ground wires, it wasn't always thet way. Wire nuts didn't really come into use until 1960- and even then, all you had was the spring part! Compared to the older twist, solder, and tape method, either the crimps or the springs were a real labor-saver. Both were insulated with electrical tape.

It's funny this subject would come up today; one of my jobs today was fixing some lighting a guy did in his warehouse. For the second time at this place, I found myself repairing a fault caused by an imperfect taping / assembly job. Wire nuts are much, much more tolerant of the less-skilled worker.


Getting back on-topic, anything that has been added to or modified in an old home is suspect. There are far too many folks doing electric work who aren't nearly as talented as they like to think!

Top
#63549 - 03/20/06 05:23 PM Re: I'm a little worried now.
derater Offline
Member

Registered: 03/30/02
Posts: 182
On old work I've run into nuts (2 part)that have a brass conn. w/screw and the 'nut' part threads onthe brass and merely insulates the wires. I like 'em, more labor but solid connection.

Top
#63550 - 03/20/06 05:43 PM Re: I'm a little worried now.
e57 Offline
Member

Registered: 05/27/03
Posts: 2837
Loc: S.F.,CA USA
Those Buchanon crimps had a tendency to heat, expand, and loosen under moderate to high loads, especially if not crimped properly. I think they had so many problems that they eventually lost listing for current carrying conductors? I don't think you can get the little rubber boots (that went under the tape) for them anymore?
_________________________
Mark Heller
"Well - I oughta....." -Jackie Gleason

Top
#63551 - 03/21/06 05:18 AM Re: I'm a little worried now.
Cobtronics Offline
Member

Registered: 07/24/03
Posts: 16
Loc: Vermont

Top
#63552 - 03/21/06 06:35 AM Re: I'm a little worried now.
Fred Offline
Member

Registered: 04/30/01
Posts: 461
Loc: Straughn, IN 47387
They still make the crimps and caps and they are listed. We use nothing but Ideal 410 crimps and caps in one customer's factory. Vibration there tends to unscrew the tightest wirenut over time. And before anyone suggests taping the wirenut, I will state that I can crimp and cap a connection quicker.

Top
#63553 - 03/21/06 08:57 AM Re: I'm a little worried now.
gfretwell Offline

Member

Registered: 07/20/04
Posts: 9045
Loc: Estero,Fl,usa
When I started looking around this house I found none of the previous homeowner's splices used anything but the twist and tape method. He wrapped stranded wire around the solid and folded them over, pinching the stranded. It looked very ugly but I have to admit I didn't find one that had any signs of heating, even in the 1440w bathroom heaters. Copper is very forgiving I guess.
I think I have finally got all of this wiring out but it wasn't easy finding it all. Fortunately he seemed to have a spool of dark brown TW style romex he used so it is easy to trace. Most was done in the 3:12 attic and then covered with blown cellulose. The original 1963 (asphalt/paper Romex) wiring was soldered and taped. That is solid but a pain to work on. I got back to original and stopped screwing with it, running new circuits when I wanted something.
_________________________
Greg Fretwell

Top
#63554 - 03/21/06 07:25 PM Re: I'm a little worried now.
hypress Offline
Member

Registered: 07/20/04
Posts: 132
Loc: Charleston WV
The plant where I work was originaly built in the 40's and the spec has been twist fold over and tape. The reason I was given was viberation. It seems crude but it seems to work.

Top
Page 1 of 2 1 2 >



ECN Electrical Forums - sponsored by Electrical Contractor Network - Electrical and Code Related Discussion for Electrical Contractors, Electricians, Inspectors, Instructors, Engineers and other related Professionals