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#63376 - 03/14/06 12:03 PM What should a perfect panel have?
renosteinke Offline
Cat Servant

Registered: 01/22/05
Posts: 5305
Loc: Blue Collar Country
For me, the "perfect panel would have a few improvements made to the door design.
I ought to be able to set the cover in place- so the weight is borne by the panel- and the screw holes would line up.
The mounting screws should be captive, so they don't get lost.
The cover should be lightweight. Plastic and aluminum come to mind.
The cover should have real handles on it, so I don't risk cutting my fingers on sharp edges.

The neutral buss ought not be buried under all the hot wires, and they neutrals ought not be "stacked". Indeed, you ought to be able to tie down the neutrals in a manner that makes clear just which 'hot' wire the neutral is associated with.

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#63377 - 03/14/06 01:05 PM Re: What should a perfect panel have?
Dnkldorf Offline

Registered: 12/12/04
Posts: 1091
Loc: nowhere usa
And don't forget the KO's should come out easier.....maybe they could switch dies more often..

Although the front doors came a long way from the old SQ D that had them twist kinda hook things, that always wieghed 100lbs and caught every wire when you installed them..


[This message has been edited by Dnkldorf (edited 03-14-2006).]

#63378 - 03/14/06 01:27 PM Re: What should a perfect panel have?
Active 1 Offline

Registered: 02/22/03
Posts: 684
Loc: Grayslake IL, USA
I don't like all the ecntrics & concentrics. I don't need a 2 1/2" KO on a 100 amp panel. Even the 200 panels I wish it did not have the 2 1/2" KO. Or even all the 1" KO on the load centers. I wish the KO were more in rows and 1/2". I can make em bigger. Or just an empty tub on a load center so I can do it my own way.

How about a ground screw hole that has more then 2 threads. Maybe a ground stud presed and welded in.

Like renosteinke said about the cover setting in place (Siemens tried this but could do better). Also what he said about the nutral screws by each breaker (like the older siemens).


#63379 - 03/14/06 02:34 PM Re: What should a perfect panel have?
Rewired Offline

Registered: 01/01/06
Posts: 567
Loc: Hamilton, Ontario, Canada
Lets see.. KO's... well I would like to see lots on a panel but I would like a few more 1/2 - 3/4 concentric ones...
A full length neutral bar would be nice too, and while you are at it, put in a full length ground bar as well, you know so you don't have to do a lot of digging through other wires if you want to add or remove circuits at a later date.. And what the heck, might as well make the tub a bit deeper and wider... A little more working room is always nice...


#63380 - 03/14/06 02:49 PM Re: What should a perfect panel have?
Fred Offline

Registered: 04/30/01
Posts: 461
Loc: Straughn, IN 47387
I would rather they did away with KOs all together. I'd rather punch my own just like commercial grade tubs. And have EGC bars at the top and bottom of the enclosure and neutral bus all the way down on both sides. All tubs should be galvanized, not painted so there's no paint to scratch either accidently or on purpose when you're installing an additional ground lug. Doors/covers should be non-metallic to eliminate weight, corrosion and conductivity.
Just my opinion.

#63381 - 03/14/06 02:52 PM Re: What should a perfect panel have?
Dnkldorf Offline

Registered: 12/12/04
Posts: 1091
Loc: nowhere usa
Sorry guys, wasn't clear, did I say I was having a bad day?????

The KO's I meant were the knock outs for the breakers..sometimes the dies don't cut enough and you end up bending the panel front trying to remove them...


#63382 - 03/14/06 04:32 PM Re: What should a perfect panel have?
HotLine1 Offline


Registered: 04/03/02
Posts: 6832
Loc: Brick, NJ USA
Sharp edges on front panel (door)??? About 4 months ago, pulled cover for insp; went to write a note on permit card; noticed blood. Did the razor cut thing to four fingers of right hand. Not going to knock the 'brand'.

Galv tubs, no ko's get my vote.

One mfg has a small 'tab' at the top of the cover to hold it in place; works OK, not great.

Nothing like the old industrial covers with the 'foot on the bottom of the cover to hold the weight, and the 1/4x20 hardware.

A real horror was/is the covers with the 'fixed' latch things where you turn the outer washer to align the latches & then tighten the bolts. Great idea IF it would work!


#63383 - 03/14/06 07:13 PM Re: What should a perfect panel have?
e57 Offline

Registered: 05/27/03
Posts: 2837
Loc: S.F.,CA USA
Ok.... Its a dream panel, and not cheap....

  • Dual Neutral, and installed ground bars (Ground top and bottom, neutral on each side)
  • Have removable tops and bottoms. 1 set with KO's (installed) for cable type instalations, and another set temp mounted to the inside of the panel with no KO's for when you need to make your own to either an existing patern, or any other patern you want.
  • Be truely "Invertable", not turn the whole panel upside down and have the door swing change, and have phase A and B reverse (Murray - FYI I hate that!)
  • Edges that adjust for for changes in wall finish, and for up to 1 1/2" like a big goof ring...
  • Has a flat door that has an 1/16th" tolorance trick cabinet door that blends right into the wall.
  • Intumescent inserts available for 2 hour rating!
  • Has its own required illumination built in for use when cover is on or off.
  • All breakers have trip indicator LED and ammeter display during operation.
  • All breakers 22k AIC rated, current limiting to 5k depending on setting.
  • All breakers are AF/GF/regular, depending on setting.
  • All breakers are dual rated 15 to 50a, single or multi-pole depending on setting and installed.
  • All breakers have astonomical timeclock, motion interface, and dry contact control.
  • Has a modem that I can use to troubleshoot, and reset breakers from home.
  • Has at least one year warrantee, and a local service Rep to program and install the darn thing. (So long as I can mark up the service calls, warrantee or not.)
Mark Heller
"Well - I oughta....." -Jackie Gleason

#63384 - 03/14/06 07:45 PM Re: What should a perfect panel have?
Tiger Offline

Registered: 05/04/05
Posts: 714
Loc: Crystal Lake, IL USA
I'd really like a panel that will finish itself so I can watch & take a break (it's been a long day).


#63385 - 03/14/06 07:52 PM Re: What should a perfect panel have?
BigB Offline

Registered: 03/31/04
Posts: 727
Loc: Tucson, AZ USA
And in addition to the longer grd and neut buses how about more large holes in them as well for #6 and #4s instead of having to drive to the supply house when you realize you need a ten dollar "add a lug".

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