The Electrical Contractor Network

ECN Electrical Forum
Discussion Forums for Electricians, Inspectors and Related Professionals

Books, Tools and Test Equipment for Electrical and Construction Trades

Page 1 of 2 1 2 >
Topic Options
Rate This Topic
#62182 - 02/10/06 05:00 PM Switch in tub area
GTE Offline
Member
Registered: 03/26/03
Posts: 48
Loc: Bridgehampton, N.Y. USA
Can a switch be installed within the tub area? This is a free standing tub with no shower.
Top
Work Gear for Electricians and the Trades
#62183 - 02/10/06 05:21 PM Re: Switch in tub area
e57 Offline
Member
Registered: 05/27/03
Posts: 2837
Loc: S.F.,CA USA
No, bad idea anyway. see 404.4
_________________________
Mark Heller
"Well - I oughta....." -Jackie Gleason
Top
#62184 - 02/10/06 06:53 PM Re: Switch in tub area
GTE Offline
Member
Registered: 03/26/03
Posts: 48
Loc: Bridgehampton, N.Y. USA
A wall sconce can be installed, but not a switch? Is the space above a tub a wet or damp area? If there is no shower I think it is a damp area.
Top
#62185 - 02/10/06 07:47 PM Re: Switch in tub area
bot540 Offline
Member
Registered: 09/14/04
Posts: 177
Loc: Vernon Hills, IL
no, a wall sconce can't be installed. The 3" x 8" rule applies for certain fixtures. Read 410.4.(of the top of my head, maybe not right section but it should be close to that)
_________________________
Jesus may have been a capenter,but God was an electrician.Genesis1:3
Top
#62186 - 02/10/06 10:16 PM Re: Switch in tub area
mxslick Offline
Member
Registered: 10/24/04
Posts: 785
Loc: Atomic City, ID USA
Quote:
The 3" x 8" rule


I think he means 3' x 8' rule.

Are you working on a McMansion? Sounds like the crazy stuff they try to pull with electrical goods in the tub area....
_________________________
Stupid should be painful.
Top
#62187 - 02/11/06 03:00 AM Re: Switch in tub area
Texas_Ranger Offline
Member
Registered: 12/17/01
Posts: 2351
Loc: Vienna, Austria
Maybe you could put a pull-chain switch in the ceiling, with a non-conductive pull-string... that's the way it was done before switches inside bathrooms were allowed at all in some European countries.
Top
#62188 - 02/11/06 03:04 AM Re: Switch in tub area
iwire Offline
Moderator
Registered: 01/05/03
Posts: 4343
Loc: North Attleboro, MA USA
Quote:
no, a wall sconce can't be installed. The 3" x 8" rule applies for certain fixtures. Read 410.4.(of the top of my head, maybe not right section but it should be close to that)


Wall sconces are not prohibited from 'the area'

Quote:
410.4(D) Bathtub and Shower Areas. No parts of cord-connected luminaires (fixtures), hanging luminaires (fixtures), lighting track, pendants, or ceiling-suspended (paddle) fans shall be located within a zone measured 900 mm (3 ft) horizontally and 2.5 m (8 ft) vertically from the top of the bathtub rim or shower stall threshold. This zone is all encompassing and includes the zone directly over the tub or shower stall.


Bob
_________________________
Bob Badger
Construction & Maintenance Electrician
Massachusetts
Top
#62189 - 02/11/06 08:22 AM Re: Switch in tub area
renosteinke Offline
Cat Servant
Member
Registered: 01/22/05
Posts: 5305
Loc: Blue Collar Country
The code cannot, ever, be expected to specifically address every possible contingency. So, we have to look at the context of the code, as well as similar applications, and make our interpretations from there.

Secondly, this is a far from perfect world, and sometimes we just have to make do with something less than ideal. Again, only with the proper education, training, and experience can we attempt to "compensate."

First of all, the location: Let's see, just how "damp" is your hand likely to be, or your feet (while standing in the tub) when the switch is operated? Heck, if I could, I'd want such a switch to be not just 'damp' or 'wet' rated, but submersible!

Looking at a similar application -the part of the code that deals with pools and spas- we see that the code wants the lights themselves to be totally enclosed (weatherproof), as well as on a GFI. Not a bad idea here, either.

And not just a "GFI switch" either...I'd want the circuit feeding the switch GFI protected, with the GFI in another room, well out of reach.

Even if you could somehow guarantee that there would never, ever be a wet hand touching that switch, condensation will be drawn into that switch as a fly to a cowpie....best to have that switch totally sealed and gasketed as well. One of those outdoor covers with the lever comes to mind, or an industrial selector switch.
(FWIW, the latest such covers are raised about 1/4", and will accept a normal switch).

My preferred choice, though would be to MOVE THE SWITCH.
Top
#62190 - 02/11/06 11:16 AM Re: Switch in tub area
Alan Nadon Offline
Member
Registered: 03/10/05
Posts: 398
Loc: Elkhart, IN. USA
The Code restricts the location of fixtures not the switches.
Wall switches may be located within the three foot radius of the tub.
EXCEPT in manufactured housing (HUD) which has a regulation prohibiting it.
It is a design consideration.
Damp or wet location restrictions may apply to the switch construction & location.
Alan--
Bathroom GFI receptacles are frequently installed within three feet of the tub

[This message has been edited by Alan Nadon (edited 02-11-2006).]
_________________________
Alan--
If it was easy, anyone could do it.
Top
#62191 - 02/13/06 02:29 PM Re: Switch in tub area
TNSunny Offline
Member
Registered: 12/06/05
Posts: 44
Loc: Tennessee
My home, which was was built in the early '60's, has the light switch for the main bathroom located directly above the rim of the tub. I've wanted to move it, but there is no other place to put it unless you want to walk halfway through a dark bathroom to get to the switch. So I guess I'll leave it where it is for now.

I would say that the intention of the code is to keep ALL electrical devices - except those specifically rated and permitted - out of "the zone." Granted, that many bathroom designs pretty much require that the receptacle or switch end up inside the zone, in which case, I guess we just have to deal with it.

Kevin
_________________________
Kevin
Top
Page 1 of 2 1 2 >

Featured:

2017 NEC and Related
2017 NEC
Now Available!

Shout Box

Recent Posts
Looking for older post
by sparkyinak
Today at 12:27 AM
License exam
by TRUE POWER
Yesterday at 11:33 PM
Members: Non-Members: Did you know?
by Admin
Yesterday at 02:34 PM
Safety at heights?
by HotLine1
01/21/17 08:51 PM
International Wire Colour Codes
by Texas_Ranger
01/21/17 03:29 PM

Who's Online
1 registered (Ruben Rocha), 142 Guests and 11 Spiders online.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
New in the Gallery:
Desk-mounted "power-board"
Top Posters
gfretwell 9066
Trumpy 8560
pauluk 7693
HotLine1 6833
sparky 5545
Member Spotlight
Tom
Tom
Member Since: 01/01/01
Posts: 1069

ECN Electrical Forums - sponsored by Electrical Contractor Network - Electrical and Code Related Discussion for Electrical Contractors, Electricians, Inspectors, Instructors, Engineers and other related Professionals