The Electrical Contractor Network

ECN Electrical Forum
Discussion Forums for Electricians, Inspectors and Related Professionals

Books, Tools and Test Equipment for Electrical and Construction Trades

Register Now!

Register Now!

We want your input!

Featured:
   

2017 NEC and Related
2017 NEC
Now Available!

   
Recent Posts
Industrail Control Panel bonding per 409.108
by sparkyinak
12/09/16 06:29 PM
Calling all Non-US members!! (Non-US only)
by aussie240
12/07/16 02:39 AM
Photo Upload Tutorial
by DanK
12/06/16 11:35 PM
Sprinklered equipment 26-008
by bigpapa
12/02/16 04:24 PM
On Delay Relay with Auto Reset
by Potseal
12/01/16 09:59 AM
New in the Gallery:
12.5A through 0.75mm˛ flex (just out of curiosity)
Shout Box

Top Posters (30 Days)
gfretwell 13
HotLine1 10
sparkyinak 9
Texas_Ranger 8
Potseal 6
Who's Online
0 registered (), 81 Guests and 4 Spiders online.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Page 1 of 2 1 2 >
Topic Options
Rate This Topic
#59540 - 12/07/05 05:21 AM sub-panels
Bert66 Offline
Member

Registered: 11/01/04
Posts: 78
Loc: Belle Chasse, La. USA
is it acceptable to use split bolts to connect from the primary side of a main breaker to service another main breaker in a seperate panel. let me explain, from the meter socket we feed a 200a main breaker panel, an additional garage was added with a 100a main breaker panel. could i use split nuts to terminate and supply power to the second panel or just put another 100a breaker in the first panel to feed the second 100a main breaker in the second panel? In this configuration both panels would have a paralle feed from the meter. Does this violate any code?

Top
Work Gear for Electricians and the Trades

Work Gear for Electricians and the Trades
Work Gear for Electricians and the Trades
Arc Flash Clothing, Gloves, KneePads, Tool Belts, Pouches, Tool Carriers, etc. etc....

#59541 - 12/07/05 05:51 AM Re: sub-panels
trekkie76 Offline
Member

Registered: 06/19/04
Posts: 219
Loc: baileyville, maine, usa
I would put another breaker in the main panel and feed out to the garage. you would save time and IMO have a more secure connection. Is there some reason you wanted to do it this way, like no more spaces in the main panel? As far as violating any code, I would want to know how far from the main it is, you might be able to use the tap rule.

[This message has been edited by trekkie76 (edited 12-07-2005).]

Top
#59542 - 12/07/05 06:15 AM Re: sub-panels
Mike Wescoatt Offline
Member

Registered: 06/17/01
Posts: 164
Loc: Cedar City, Utah
I've been having a brain block on this one... When you run wires from the meter to the building main breaker it is called a service conductor, right? What is the wire set called when you run from a new 100A breaker in the main panel to another building, as in the suggestion from trekkie76? Feeder? Lateral? Branch circuit conductor? I want to find out to apply the proper rules from the code to see if I can run them inside or if I need 2" concrete or keep them outside...
(Some days there's just too many pages in the code... ;-)
_________________________
Mike Wescoatt

Top
#59543 - 12/07/05 06:16 AM Re: sub-panels
Larry Fine Offline
Member

Registered: 02/18/05
Posts: 684
Loc: Richmond, VA
I would see a problem with placing 300 amp's worth of main breaker on a feeder sized for 200. Use the breaker.
_________________________
Larry Fine
Fine Electric Co.
fineelectricco.com

Top
#59544 - 12/07/05 08:46 AM Re: sub-panels
gfretwell Offline

Member

Registered: 07/20/04
Posts: 9045
Loc: Estero,Fl,usa
Any connection on the line side of the service disconnect is a service entrance conductor and would have to follow SE rules. It also adds to the size of the service as Larry points out.
Installing this as a feeder (on the load side of the service disconnect) is a safer option with less potential problems.
_________________________
Greg Fretwell

Top
#59545 - 12/07/05 09:44 AM Re: sub-panels
Helectric Offline
Member

Registered: 01/07/05
Posts: 91
Loc: Brandon, SD
I think that code section that your question refers to is 230-40 exception #1.

You've given us breaker sizes but I'm curious about the calculated or actual loads served by both panels - 230-23 (a) & 230-31(a).

Another approach would be to come off the load side meter lugs. While permissable you won't have the added piece of mind that having a CB on the conductors would give you.



[This message has been edited by Helectric (edited 12-07-2005).]

Top
#59546 - 12/07/05 11:53 AM Re: sub-panels
jwhite Offline
Member

Registered: 12/01/05
Posts: 67
Loc: Trenton, NC, USA
Where are you planning to find a meter with lugs rated for more than one wire?

The biggest concern I would have is stripping the current wires to attach that split bolts as they are live.

Top
#59547 - 12/07/05 12:06 PM Re: sub-panels
Steve Miller Offline
Member

Registered: 08/30/01
Posts: 322
Loc: Loudoun Cty, VA
jwhite:
I did one that had a 400a meter can, 350 Cu thru the mast to the POCO. In the meter can we removed the single lugs and put in doubles. We fed two separate panels, one in the house and one in a garage. AHJ had no prob with changing the lugs. (in that area the homeowner owns the meter can, it's not provided by POCO)

Top
#59548 - 12/07/05 02:23 PM Re: sub-panels
Helectric Offline
Member

Registered: 01/07/05
Posts: 91
Loc: Brandon, SD
JWhite & Steve,

Yes, this is done in my area as well. I think that you can even order meter cans with studs only and then install the desired lugs yourself.
If I remember correctly, the code allowed this practice until the 70's then it was taken out for about 24 years. I'm not sure but I think it (230-40 exception #1) first reappeared in the 2002 code.

[This message has been edited by Helectric (edited 12-07-2005).]

Top
#59549 - 12/07/05 04:00 PM Re: sub-panels
earlydean Offline
Member

Registered: 12/22/03
Posts: 749
Loc: Griswold, CT, USA
If you tap the service conductors ahead of the main, these are still service conductors, and are subject to all the rules of services. You cannot run service conductors through building #1 to feed building #2. (230.3) Either make your connection outside the building (10x10x4 J-box) or feed through a CB, as discussed.

[This message has been edited by earlydean (edited 12-07-2005).]
_________________________
Earl

Top
Page 1 of 2 1 2 >



ECN Electrical Forums - sponsored by Electrical Contractor Network - Electrical and Code Related Discussion for Electrical Contractors, Electricians, Inspectors, Instructors, Engineers and other related Professionals