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#59457 - 12/06/05 12:35 AM It's that time of year again in California
e57 Offline
Member

Registered: 05/27/03
Posts: 2837
Loc: S.F.,CA USA
Wondering what will happen to the Electrician Certification Program? It has become an annual event! Postponed or not this year? What will happen? Who's enforcing it? How will they enforce it?

32,000+ applied 22,000+ took the test, 17,000+ actually passed it, and some of those are limited to Residential, and Alarm Systems. What happens to the ~12,000 who haven't taken the test, or the estimated 30,000 that did not even apply? Are they all going to be apprentices now?
http://www.dir.ca.gov/DAS/ElectricalTrade.htm

I know some new guys who don't have the hours that are preping to look for other jobs, and a few with language difficulties that may try to get into apprenticeship programs after 10 years of doing this work, or also looking for other work.

For those of us who passed the test, (Some of us years ago) things may still change for us too. One apprentice per journeyman could screw up scheduling large jobs. We could see a high dollar demand for anyone with a card, or find that GC's are doing all the electrical work... Who knows?
_________________________
Mark Heller
"Well - I oughta....." -Jackie Gleason

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#59458 - 12/06/05 05:04 AM Re: It's that time of year again in California
electure Offline

Member

Registered: 12/24/00
Posts: 4226
Loc: Fullerton, CA USA
Let the 3 Ring Dog and Pony Show Begin!!

I don't think that there's going to be an 11th hour postponement this time.

Issues that still need to be resolved? Yes, there are plenty. As I understand it:

Enforcement - Who's going to enforce this and how? At this point it looks like there's no penalty for working without cert, or employing uncertified workers. Only for misrepresenting yourself as certified, or counterfeiting a card.
The newspaper here still carries numerous ads for journeyman, and even foremen, with a minimum of 2 yrs experience

Accreditation - There is a major shortage of instructors and schools for apprentices. There is a form for apps to submit that has a spot for them to enter their school's number....As of a couple of weeks ago, the State had not issued numbers to the schools.

And on goes the Circus.

(I guess 6 years has not been enough time for the DAS to figure out these things. I think they ought to lock them in their own offices in San Francisco, not some luxury view suite overlooking San Diego's Mission Bay, and tell them that they can come out when they're done, and not a moment before.)

This is gonna be fun I'm glad I bought my front row seat ticket early (#39) so I can sit down with my popcorn and watch.
I can almost hear "March of the Clowns" playing now!

Purely my personal opinion

BTW, our shop is 100% compliant




[This message has been edited by electure (edited 12-06-2005).]

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#59459 - 12/06/05 07:45 AM Re: It's that time of year again in California
sandsnow Offline
Member

Registered: 09/21/04
Posts: 163
Loc: Irvine, CA, USA
Scott
You sound like someone who's knows someone close to the committee or at least follow things very closely. I myself do know someone and wish I could tell what I hear.

Meeting in the Bay area this Thursday.

The biggest irony about the guys who haven't become certified is the test is SO EASY!!!!
_________________________
Larry LeVoir
Inspector
City of Irvine, CA

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#59460 - 12/06/05 11:52 AM Re: It's that time of year again in California
LK Offline

Member

Registered: 01/21/03
Posts: 1721
Loc: New Jersey
We went to the circuis here in New Jersey back in the 60's, at that time, plumbers, welders, AC Installers, and yes Appliance Repair, they all tried to ride in on the grandfather clause, to prevent this the board had electrical contractors that screened the applicants, also the test was tough from day one, they even had a pricatical test with rigid conduit at that time, the policing is done by the EC's it is up to them to rat out illegal operators, if they don't then things will continue as usual, I have been rated out 3 times in the last 4 years, because they din't see the Lic on the truck or they din't see the permit place card in the window.

Good Luck when the Circuis comes to town!

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#59461 - 12/06/05 03:17 PM Re: It's that time of year again in California
Tesla Offline
Member

Registered: 06/16/04
Posts: 1280
Loc: Sacramento, CA
If California 'enforces' this law is open to question.

The CSLB scarcely enforces the law against unlicensed contractors, and they are easy to find and sting. All that they'd have to do is read the classifieds.

BTW the test is so 'easy' that 20% are washing out. The weakest players have stalled the longest. Failure rates have climbed from the beginning.

The test as given doubles as an intelligence test. Federal case law has ruled against any test that has that character being given by an employer. Whether the State of California is permitted to do so... time will tell.
_________________________
Tesla

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#59462 - 12/06/05 05:33 PM Re: It's that time of year again in California
e57 Offline
Member

Registered: 05/27/03
Posts: 2837
Loc: S.F.,CA USA
Scott- "There is a major shortage of instructors and schools for apprentices."

There is another little known part of labor code that ties into this...
It is prohibative to have two programs covering the same geographical area, you can have two, but apprentley its not easy to convince that DAS of this. So many who do go into a program will either get in on the program that is in thier area, or have to drive 120 miles round trip to another program that they can get in to for classes.

I know a guy who lives across the street from the NJACT, (who turned away people by the thousands last cycle) and will spend the next 5 years driving to deep space for something he can get by walking across the street. Not a happy guy...

I'm several rows back at seat number 586. Old shop is 100% new shop is ~75%, and two guys leaving the trade if enforced. One for language barrier(Chinese), and one for lack of hours who'll go back to refridgeration.

A while back I gave a call to the DAS, and got this reply on enforcement.... (Take with several grains of salt!) "Insurability!" What does that mean? 'No insurance - no work?' "Yep!" Couldn't get much past that, but the DIR, the DAS's parent organization also writes the Workmens Comp' rules.... Only time will tell....

Tesla - the CSLB has nothing to do with this law. It is in the Labor Code, not the B&P Code.
_________________________
Mark Heller
"Well - I oughta....." -Jackie Gleason

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#59463 - 12/06/05 07:19 PM Re: It's that time of year again in California
gfretwell Offline

Member

Registered: 07/20/04
Posts: 9045
Loc: Estero,Fl,usa
It is a fact that some people just don't do well on tests. Unfortunately they do usually end up being in the trades, perhaps because of SAT scores.
In a job where a big chunk of the aquired skill is not going to be reflected on a multiple guess test I think there is certainly a degree of unfairness in it.

The flip side of this is there are some tricks to passing tests where a guy who can read between the lines and think like the test writer can pass a test with nothing more than the book and a rudimentry knowledge of the subject.
_________________________
Greg Fretwell

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#59464 - 12/07/05 04:22 AM Re: It's that time of year again in California
electure Offline

Member

Registered: 12/24/00
Posts: 4226
Loc: Fullerton, CA USA
The fairness of testing does not explain away the fact that, as e57 said, 30.000 (a conservative estimate) have not even applied.
About halfway through this year, I asked a couple of guys that have known about this test since the beginning (the first actual testing was done just about 3 years ago) "What color is the codebook?"
They did not know the answer, although they had just both asked for raises. Both work as foremen, and have been in the trade 10 yrs+
I feel bad for someone who has studied, tried to pass the exam, and failed. I have no sympathy for the slackers that have done nothing.

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#59465 - 12/07/05 06:53 AM Re: It's that time of year again in California
sandsnow Offline
Member

Registered: 09/21/04
Posts: 163
Loc: Irvine, CA, USA
Scott wrote:
I feel bad for someone who has studied, tried to pass the exam, and failed.

I do as well. I did not mean to sound unfeeling before.
_________________________
Larry LeVoir
Inspector
City of Irvine, CA

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#59466 - 12/07/05 09:20 AM Re: It's that time of year again in California
Steve McKinney Offline
Member

Registered: 04/30/04
Posts: 80
Loc: Marion, Illinois
Hey fellas,

Couldn't help but notice the situation the state is in, which is no surprise to anyone who has been following this.

I was wondering if there is a market for week-end type exam prep classes.

I currently teach in the mid-west but would come out if someone would help me set it all up. If we can see if it is worth our while for both of us, it could be interesting!

If interested, just post here or e-mail me and we will see what we can put together.

Thanks,

Steve McKinney

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