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#56899 - 10/02/05 05:43 PM ....arc fault or no arc fault , thats the question  
copperseller  Offline
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 28
i just recently recieved a print out in which it was statet,that arc faults do not need to be installed(even if the service is upgraded) if the house was build before 2002
then again i hear arc faults are needed anyways if you do upgrade(or just update) the service.
does anybody has the precise info on that?

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#56900 - 10/02/05 06:58 PM Re: ....arc fault or no arc fault , thats the question  
renosteinke  Offline
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 5,316
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The guiding principle can be found in our Constitution, which has a ban on "ex poste facto laws." You cannot, today, make what you did yesterday illegal.

Service change? I say "no". This is especially true of even older homes, where the circuits are sure not to be segregated in the manner they are today. A bedroom might be served by a different circuit for each outlet!

AFCI's? The places I do service changes generally don't even have ground wires! And four fuses seems typical.

When you do a service change, some circuits will have to be split off. In general, if I see two wires going to one fuse- two breakers are used. This applies even if the wires are joined with a wire-nit and pigtail to the fuse block.

But, really, consider all the requirements we've aded over the years. Would you also require adding bath GFCI's, kitchen convenience circuits, laundry circuits, outdoor receptacles, furnace outlets, smoke detector circuits, and ground wires part of every service change?

Adding an AFCI breaker might be a nice thing to do, but I don't consider it mandatory.

Heck- I just did a service change on my 1940, 30-amp service, two fuse home. Do you really think I gutted the place, adding all the stuff we now require?
Laundry? My main drain, according to the plumbing code, is too small for a washer. (Not that I have anywhere to put one).
Kitchen circuits? I have only the space atop my water heater for "counter top" area. The only receptacle is for the fridge, and the switch for the exhaust fan.
Bath GFCI? Where's the receptacle?
Furnace? Mine needs no electricity, and sits in the middle of the living room wall.
Outside receptacles? OK, I did indulge myself, and mounted one to the panel.
12 ft. rule? Nope- my living room has 50 ft. of wall space- and one receptacle (and that one is switched).
Smoke alarms? Put in a cheap ion-type anywhere, and you'll have nothing but nuisance alarms. This will result in most folks finding a way to disable the thing; they don't know there's another type (photoelectric).

My point is that it can be downright silly to try to apply today's rules to yesterday's work.

There may be an attitude that "more is better," or, "safety is good;" but things aren't always that simple.

#56901 - 10/02/05 08:49 PM Re: ....arc fault or no arc fault , thats the question  
copperseller  Offline
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 28
thnx reno
i share your point 100%
nevertheless there is a rule for that
i know there is a rule that says houses build before 2002 are not subject to arc faults no matter what
but i know there are code inspectors enforcing it anyways
But i know for sure there is that thing about those houses build before 2002 are not to be part of arc faults.
anyone has some 100% info?

#56902 - 10/02/05 08:54 PM Re: ....arc fault or no arc fault , thats the question  
copperseller  Offline
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 28
by the way
there are townships and boroughs here that do reqire 2 kitchen circuits ,dedicated bathroom circuits, and arcs for the bedroom in order to approve a service change
check allentown,bethlehem,whitehall in pa
i think it is silly but they inforcing it in order to get a service approved..
no kidding
however what is the nec about that and the before 2002 build houses?

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